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Nerds and Male Privilege

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Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#91

Post by da_dude4242 »

wanorris wrote: post #84
da_dude4242 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Males have the "privilege" of being the "stronger" sex. If you're not collected and emotionally unreactive you are abnormal/weak. Any emotional expression that deviates from a narrow acceptable range is abnormal. You do not need the same reaching out or emotional support of the "weaker" sex because you are strong. It's no wonder males have the privilege of being more likely to be isolated. Have the privilege of being…

> None of this captured by your list though so I suppose it's irrelevant. They're not on a male privilege checklist. A catalog of gender differences would be a different list. > When is the last time you read an article about leveling the field of female privilege? In theory the idea of privilege is inclusive but in practice it's not. I think most feminists would discount the idea of "female privilege" per se as a fa…

"I think most feminists would discount the idea of "female privilege" per se as a false equivalence similar to a hypothetical "black privilege"."

That's my point.

"The fact that there is a societal preference toward masculinity, which underlies many of your points, is definitely a topic that gets brought up in feminine circles. This is why it's comparatively okay for women to be tomboys and such, and highly frowned upon for men to be effeminate or show what are considered feminine traits."

My point is that's not a fact. I mean look at what you're saying. You're saying that the fact a gay male is more likely to experience stigma, have less support, more likely to be a victim of hate crime, and more likely to kill himself than his gay female counterpart is an offense against the feminine. The determining factor for these injustices is being biologically male.

"Many feminists call this general societal enforcement of gender roles part of patriarchy, and seek to remove the stigma associated with violating these roles. So if that's something you're interested in, there's no reason you can't find common cause."

In theory there is no reason why there can't be common cause. Gender analysis is gender analysis. In practice it usually doesn't work out that way.

Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#92

Post by AndyKelley »

beloch wrote: post #46

The article makes some interesting points, but permit me to play devil's advocate when it comes to the way women and men are portrayed in geek media. All media, really. Men: Serious. Women: Sexy. Okay, no arguments there. But what does this difference in portrayal of the two sexes really mean? However much some might believe otherwise, humans are hard-wired by evolution to have gender roles. Homo sapiens has been aro…

You're addressing what is. The article is addressing what ought.

I think.

Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#93

Post by rdtsc »

davidhansen wrote: post #28

I'm not sure why the author of this article somehow thinks that geeks deny the existence of sexism in geek culture. The reality is that it's widely known and accepted. If the author wants to find something to rail against, he should have chosen the fact that everybody knows, but nobody cares . I'm not going to defend the treatment of women in geek culture, as much of it is indefensible. but it seems that few people b…

I blame fucked up educational and general (I presume US?) culture. Let me give you another possibility. A country where liking math, computers and being good at those subjects earns you status and admiration including from girls. I remember tutoring some girls in those subjects, helping them with the homework and eventually dating them. It mostly based on my status as being #1 in those subjects got me the equivalent I guess what a football jock would get in an American high-school (and I know because I went there too, so I can compare).

However there is another element here and that is there are different kinds of women and it is not about girls vs boys but about assholes vs everyone else. When a girl was mean to me it was because she was an asshole not because she was a girl. I wouldn't want to be admired or liked or even be in the company of anyone like that.

Now to get back to the original subject I think often apparent misogynism is the result of socially inept/stupid behavior on behalf of male geeks. When there are 20 male geeks and one woman gets included in the group, the geeks start acting stupid and saying stupid things. Sorry I can't put it another less direct way. They often try to impress the woman or vie for her attention. Trying to outdo each other they end up making some inappropriate sexual joke, or even end up propositioning her. Sometimes hateful remarks are just sad attempt at teasing and trying to be more "direct" and "open" with her. Pretty soon she will be running away without even looking back. I know I am stereotyping geeks here as sexually frustrated, socially inept individuals, but that is because often I see it happening like that. So my idea is that misogyny is sometimes only apparent and stems from social ineptitude, rather then a genuine hatred of women as a gender (Not that it makes the woman feel a lot better as a result...).

Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#94

Post by AllenKids »

127 wrote: post #40

Lets not be sexist and respond in a fashion that anyone would respond to a male who whines: stop whining, get a life. Either put up or shut up. Can't handle the heat? Stay out of the kitchen. If male centered entertainment bothers you, make your own. Use your money as a vote to influence the industry. I guarantee that the industry likes money. The arguments that women should be treated with silver gloves are by their…

I have but one quibble, why is treating women like a men automatically not sexist? Your response follows the same line of logic as "gay people have equal right, right to marry the opposite sex"

I think there is a blind spot.

Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#95

Post by pyre »

orangecat wrote: post #75
zdw wrote: post #20

I don't think this is limited just to video games, comics, and such - a lot of TV and sporting events are full of "beautiful people" often wearing less/tighter things than they ought to be wearing. How is this different/worse than having cheerleaders on the side of a football field? Or Baywatch? Not that I'm defending poor or sexist behavior, but singling out "nerds" as being the worst troglodytes out there seems a b…

a lot of TV and sporting events are full of "beautiful people" often wearing less/tighter things than they ought to be wearing. "Ought"? The feminist position is that women should be able to express themselves however they want. And it turns out that given the choice, many women actually do want to wear revealing outfits. Exhibit A: Halloween.

Halloween is a bad choice to prove anything. Using your logic, I could prove that most people would prefer if our standard wardrobes were a choice between zombies, pirates or ninjas.

I saw someone with a really great Two-Face costume this Halloween. Does this mean that that person would rather spend their entire life in a Two-Face costume?

Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#96

Post by angus77 »

commieneko wrote: post #80

I've had a serious interest in comics/animation for about 45 years. I've had a professional interest for about 30 years. I can't really comment on video game culture, from a personal point of view; obviously there were no video games when I was growing up. And the only video game that ever held my interest, other than for their graphics technology, was Myst ; and it hardly had any people in it at all, objectivized or…

There's a lot of diversity in North American comics, just not in their sales. All the diversity gets shoved into the back corner of the store, where only those already "in the know" would dare venture. Check out Fantagraphics and Drawn & Quarterly and their decades-long output of original, reprint and translated material, on about as many different subjects as you can name.

Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#97

Post by GigabyteCoin »

rdtsc wrote: post #93
davidhansen wrote: post #28

I'm not sure why the author of this article somehow thinks that geeks deny the existence of sexism in geek culture. The reality is that it's widely known and accepted. If the author wants to find something to rail against, he should have chosen the fact that everybody knows, but nobody cares . I'm not going to defend the treatment of women in geek culture, as much of it is indefensible. but it seems that few people b…

I blame fucked up educational and general (I presume US?) culture. Let me give you another possibility. A country where liking math, computers and being good at those subjects earns you status and admiration including from girls. I remember tutoring some girls in those subjects, helping them with the homework and eventually dating them. It mostly based on my status as being #1 in those subjects got me the equivalent…

Any women that have been in my CS classes most certainly were not flirted with. They were 100% of the time "just another guy", and knew that before joining the class.

Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#98

Post by da_dude4242 »

Anechoic wrote: post #89
da_dude4242 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Males have the "privilege" of being the "stronger" sex. If you're not collected and emotionally unreactive you are abnormal/weak. Any emotional expression that deviates from a narrow acceptable range is abnormal. You do not need the same reaching out or emotional support of the "weaker" sex because you are strong. It's no wonder males have the privilege of being more likely to be isolated. Have the privilege of being…

> Our "strength" gives us the privilege to be drafted into wars and be generally disposable to the hazards of society. This isn't an example of privilege, it's patronization - it was a male-dominated society who declared that women weren't fit/suitable for war (and other occupations) and therefore should be protected from the horrors of war. Until recently it was men who wanted to keep women out of combat roles (now…

A)My use of the word privilege was sarcastic.

B)The Equal Rights Amendment which would have required drafting for both sexes was defeated by a woman organization(STOP ERA).

Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#99

Post by wladimir »

tsotha wrote: post #73

What a load of crap. Female comic book characters are scantily clad? You don't say. But let me suggest that has not much to do with "privilege" and everything to do with the fact that teenage boys are hard-wired to appreciate this kind of thing. No, it's not a "social construct" or an effort to keep the oppressed in her place. Where do I sign up for the privilige of having members of the opposite sex fall all over th…

Where do I sign up for the privilige of having members of the opposite sex fall all over themselves doing things for me in order to get my attention?

Yes. I think we should drop this discussion as it is bound to turn into a stereotype-fest which is counter-productive. The first step in getting rid of gender discrimination is to not make gender an issue at all.

It takes a great shift to regard people as individual people, not males or females. It requires "shutting out" a lot of cultural programming and maybe even biological reactions. Both for men and women. Most gender-discrimination is not conscious at all.

Arguing about "privilege" doesn't help anyone. How to go about this? On the internet it might be easier by just removing "gender" fields. But in the non-virtual world?

Re: Nerds and Male Privilege

#100

Post by slurgfest »

da_dude4242 wrote: post #91
wanorris wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of this captured by your list though so I suppose it's irrelevant. They're not on a male privilege checklist. A catalog of gender differences would be a different list. > When is the last time you read an article about leveling the field of female privilege? In theory the idea of privilege is inclusive but in practice it's not. I think most feminists would discount the idea of "female privilege" per se as a fa…

"I think most feminists would discount the idea of "female privilege" per se as a false equivalence similar to a hypothetical "black privilege"." That's my point. "The fact that there is a societal preference toward masculinity, which underlies many of your points, is definitely a topic that gets brought up in feminine circles. This is why it's comparatively okay for women to be tomboys and such, and highly frowned u…

I think you are right, but it is really hard to take a nuanced position like that out in public (or anyway, it invites a lot of criticism) because it is inevitably interpreted as a political move to neutralize efforts in favor of groups which are, still, disadvantaged on-the-whole even if they actually are privileged or advantaged in some specific ways.
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