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Why is the terminal input so weird?

warp.dev

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Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#141

Post by throw10920 »

sokoloff wrote: post #128
throw10920 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rent-seeking" is blatantly false. Warp is a piece of software that the developers are going to update over time. A subscription model is appropriate for goods and services where the buyers receive value over time due to the continued effort/resources of the producers. You might not want to subscribe to a service or pay for a terminal emulator (I sure don't), but don't lie about it. "Rent seeking [...] is an economic…

A subscription model seems appropriate when the value accrues to the buyer over time without regard to the level of effort expended by the seller. As a buyer, I care about my cost and the value I receive. I don’t demand to see proof of costs incurred or effort expended on the part of the seller to understand whether I got value in excess of my cost. When I pay my house insurance or mortgage, I don’t ask the insurer o…

> A subscription model seems appropriate when the value accrues to the buyer over time without regard to the level of effort expended by the seller.

That's a personal opinion, which I disagree with, and is additionally economically unsustainable. But you're free to have that opinion - the problem is sli actively misleading others by using a term like "rent-seeking" with a specific definition where it is categorically incorrect.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#142

Post by JadeNB »

cosmotic wrote: post #67
smoldesu wrote: post #3

As much as I'd like to encourage the rethinking of input methods, any terminal with a "Pricing" page is an instant nope from me. My current terminal is Open Source and while it's not perfect, it's also Free. That matters more to me than mouse input or IDE autosuggestions. If you're going to treat Linux users as a second-class citizen and charge for corporate usage, who are you hoping your target audience will be? Fra…

Can you explain why free and/or open source is important to you? What sacrifices are you willing to make to maintain free and open source?

> Can you explain why free and/or open source is important to you? What sacrifices are you willing to make to maintain free and open source?

Why should you have to make sacrifices for it? If I were demanding an open-source solution where one didn't exist, that would be one thing, but here I (and presumably also the parent) intend just to keep using an open-source solution that works perfectly well for me.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#143

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

quesera wrote: post #105
shric wrote: post #94

Dark pattern #1: Allowing the user to download the app and only then requiring the user to login/signup. This is because you know very well almost nobody will bother to try your terminal if you make it clear you require a login up front. But if they've gone to the trouble of downloading it, dragging it to Applications and running it, then maybe they'll go all the way. Dark pattern #2: On sign-up, you "agree to our te…

I'm going to go straight to "Any terminal or shell which initiates network connections as part of its core execution model, is a huge no from me". Think about all the things you type into a shell, via a terminal!

The one exception I'd give is for actual remote terminals (e.g. old-style TTYs), which are inherently making some sort of network requests. SSH (Secure SHell) would be much less useful if it couldn't make network requests as part of its core execution model!

Of course for a local terminal emulator no such requests are necessary.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#144

Post by jasonjmcghee »

brendanfalk wrote: post #63
CharlesW wrote: post #52

What do heavier terminal users think of Warp's philosophy vs. Fig's (which I've found useful as a relatively-light terminal user)? https://fig.io/

Founder of Fig here. For context, Fig integrates with your existing terminal and shell. A few things we've found: 1. Developers are understandably opinionated about their terminal/shell setup. It's a matter of personal productivity. 2. We have noticed a general trend of more terminal use happening in IDE, not a standalone terminal. 3. Most terminal "collaboration" happens asynchronously not synchronously (e.g. shared…

> We have noticed a general trend of more terminal use happening in IDE, not a standalone terminal.

This. I barely use terminal outside of Jetbrains, and heard similar things from other devs.

And people who live in vim/emacs (I used to live in vim)- I would be surprised if they'd pickup something that might interfere with their setup, like tmux or special plugins etc. (forcing login stuff aside- assuming that'll be removed at some point)

But maybe warp folks will find a way to play nice with everything, or be simply too useful to not use.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#145

Post by Stranger43 »

quesera wrote: post #103
Stranger43 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly for me this dont work with .zsh out of the box on my mac(i run a deliberately minimalist .zsh) what did you actually do to enable it. esc -> v does work both with bash and mksh on ubuntu with stock config but not out of the box with zsh on my macbook so i suspect there is something missing im my one line .zshrc file. Capital V is an actual vim command btw triggering linewise visual mode and that does so…

> what did you actually do Enable vi mode (usually in .zshrc but you can test from the command line): set -o vi Invoke $EDITOR on the current command line: ls -la /tmp That's Escape, then the lowercase v key (sequentially, not together) You can use up-arrow to go through command history, reach the one you want to rerun with modifications, then press Esc, v.

Yes thats how it works for me with bash and ksh(mksh) but with zsh esc -v does not launch $EDITOR but just puts me in visual mode inside of whatever it uses for readline.

I even tried setting editor to something other then vi(scite) and it's clear that where bash and korn lauched $EDITOR on zsh does not.

My .zsh file on macOS is literally just "set -o vi"

I guess there is some kind of added magic here(are you using the oh-my-ssh macro's) that's just not applied with my deliberately minimalist .zshrc.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#146

Post by ploum »

apetresc wrote: post #45
ploum wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also using vim mode in zsh with simply "bindkey -v". I’m interested by your "v" as full vim session shortcut. Do you mind sharing the config?

It's this section of my .zshrc here: # edit long commands autoload -U edit-command-line bindkey -M vicmd v edit-command-line That `edit-command-line` autoload script is part of zshcontrib and should be installed by default on any recent zsh distribution. I've never encountered a server I've ssh'ed into that didn't have it. Enjoy :)

Thanks. Also learned about "fc" to edit the last command entered.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#147

Post by ploum »

apetresc wrote: post #45
ploum wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also using vim mode in zsh with simply "bindkey -v". I’m interested by your "v" as full vim session shortcut. Do you mind sharing the config?

It's this section of my .zshrc here: # edit long commands autoload -U edit-command-line bindkey -M vicmd v edit-command-line That `edit-command-line` autoload script is part of zshcontrib and should be installed by default on any recent zsh distribution. I've never encountered a server I've ssh'ed into that didn't have it. Enjoy :)

If someone from the future read this, I needed to add one more line to make it work:

autoload -U edit-command-line

zle -N edit-command-line

bindkey -M vicmd v edit-command-line

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#148

Post by KronisLV »

karmakaze wrote: post #111
KronisLV wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The business plan is to create collaborative and cloud-based features that businesses will be willing to pay for. You know what, that is fair. I know a lot of folks take an issue with software that is monetized and many are jumpy about software that might rugpull them and lock certain features behind a paywall some time down the line, or look into more aggressive forms of monetization, but at the same time a lot of…

I need AI in my terminal like Xerox needed intelligent character compression that randomly alters digits in copies.

From what I can tell, lots of people have different preferences.

Some might rather enjoy a smarter autocomplete, much like IntelliSense and products like it made the older IDEs feel like text editors.

Plugins like TabNine/Codota went a step further and attempted to make the suggestions even more relevant and context sensitive.

As long as this "AI" doesn't just randomly execute commands, but rather suggests you what options are popular (locally or online, saving you opening StackOverflow, for example) or what might be relevant from the documentation and examples (so you don't have to do too much manpage scrolling), I fail to see the harm.

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#149

Post by drcongo »

fratajcz wrote: post #130
drcongo wrote: post #8

I have one question about terminal input that I cannot work out how to work out. The setup: I'm on a Mac, I use iTerm for my terminal, Fish for my shell, and most often I'm inside a docker container also running Fish and using iPython. The question: When I Ctrl+W to delete a word in a Fish prompt, what counts as a word is different to what counts as a word in iPython. For instance, Ctrl+w at the end of this string `t…

That bothered me too, the default function for Ctrl-W in ipython is unix-word-rubout from python-prompt-toolkit [1], which uses spaces for word boundaries. You can rebind it to backward-kill-word so it uses "not a letter nor a digit" as a word boundary. Here's a gist with my config (also binds shift-left/right arrow to move to previous space instead of visual select): https://gist.github.com/fratajczak/64e32421a43d3b…

Oh you are a star, thank you so much!

Re: Why is the terminal input so weird?

#150

Post by SwiftyBug »

coldtea wrote: post #119
danny_warp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The app is 100% free for any and all individuals. The business plan is to create collaborative and cloud-based features that businesses will be willing to pay for. Please check out our pricing page to learn more. Please note that our business model is not about collecting and monetizing any of your personal data. https://www.warp.dev/privacy

> Please note that our business model is not about collecting and monetizing any of your personal data Doesn't matter, any kind of connection to the mothership or telemetry is a no-no... You could have corporate edition, with telemetry and everything or a personal one. But no self-respecting dev is gonna use a terminal calling home for personal use...

I don't respect myself as a dev and even I wouldn't use it.
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