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EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

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Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#201

Post by KaiserPro »

zhdc1 wrote: post #59
Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

Expectations are simply different once you step into the luxury segment. Tesla, pre Model 3, had real issues that went beyond panel gaps. Modern Tesla is doing much better, but they're competing against established players who differentiate through great interiors and "the little details". Large portions of this customer segment are willing to trade long term reliability for perceived build quality and overall luxury…

I went to a tesla store late in 2021 to see the X, 3 and S.

On the model S in the show room, the boot looked like they had painted over a number of bugs.

One door was higher than the other. The panel gap around the driver door was massive.

I have a 2006 kia rio, which has better paint work, and better panel gaps than a tesla, and costs £1800.

I really wanted to like the tesla as I could have got a good deal, but if it didn't fit together, then what else has crappy tolerances? is the NCAP performance rigged? will it actually survive a crash?

edit stuff like this: https://imgur.com/gallery/jlSOOHJ

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#202

Post by saturn_vk »

jvanderbot wrote: post #109
Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

We bought a model Y for two years of mortgage payments. It's a dream to drive! But the user experience is abysmal. Menus are deep, the entire dashboard is wasted, including the most valuable real estate in front of the driver, and everything is just too hard. E.g. Adjusting mirrors takes 3 menu clicks, don't even think of doing it while driving. Adjusting heating takes two clicks, and when you adjust temp, it clears…

> E.g. Adjusting mirrors takes 3 menu clicks, don't even think of doing it while driving.

20 years ago I was taught that mirrors should have already been adjusted by the time you turn the key. Has this changed? Why would you ever need to adjust the mirrors while driving?

> it clears all your other settings and goes to "auto",

No it doesn't

> Seat warmer? 2+ clicks on center console

It's over click. It's still awful because you have to look at the screen, but it's still only 1 click. There is no reason to lie, it's still terrible.

> Map? You're practically looking at the passenger glove box to see it.

Unless you display is overlapping the glove box somehow, this is not the case.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#203

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

Kirby64 wrote: post #200
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Class possibly, but not price. Here in Canada the Leaf is $40k and the Bolt is $38k while the Civic is $26k.

I can't speak to other regions, but the base model Chevy Bolt is $26.6k in the USA. The Nissan Leaf is $28k. Honda Civic base in USA is $24.6k.

That's a bizarre price discrepancy. I wonder if there's some credits in there that I'm not getting in Canada, or that aren't included in the initial price tag.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#204

Post by kkfx »

I own an EV since too little BUT I've already have:

- failed to start once, "High Voltage battery disconnected" error. Detached the 12V battery, reattached it, works again. As ALL modern crapware no logs, no clue of whats going on are available to the formal but not substantial owner...

- still wait for the vendor to DISCONNECT some of it's workers phones so I can bound MY car to MY phone, to surveil charge, activate AC/heating from remote etc instead of someone else I do not know. Of course since all works through the OEM server the OEM can do anything on "my" EV...

I'm very satisfied in terms of driving comfort, very dissatisfied in terms of range, even if it's sufficient in general terms, BUT I call for a collective action: we MUST IMPOSE all OEM to use ONLY FLOSS software AND ONLY personal/authority access to vehicles. It's damn crazy to allow private entity controls of fleets of private vehicles behind their formal owner.

It's not just a risk for the owner h{im,er}self BUT also for a country who can potentially suffer traffic paralysis or multiple accidents on it's territory caused by a single private entity who in reality own all vehicles it have sold formally.

No blackboxes MUST be allowed on sale. Those who try to sell them must be sanctioned so badly no one would even try doing so again.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#205

Post by Kirby64 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #203
Kirby64 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak to other regions, but the base model Chevy Bolt is $26.6k in the USA. The Nissan Leaf is $28k. Honda Civic base in USA is $24.6k.

That's a bizarre price discrepancy. I wonder if there's some credits in there that I'm not getting in Canada, or that aren't included in the initial price tag.

Those prices are without any incentives, actually. If they actually manage to get the 'made in America' requirement for the batteries, then I believe they'd be eligible for an additional $7500 off that price. Depending on where you live, there may be still state incentives available right now too.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#206

Post by magicalhippo »

sk0g wrote: post #139
LinuxBender wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salt is also pervasive on roads that get a lot of snow and ice. UPS is about to implement EV trucks here and I talk to the drivers all the time so I guess time will tell how that works out. AFAIK none of the locals own an EV but they do pass through here on their way to Yellowstone.

When I was in Oslo a few years ago, every third car was a Tesla for whatever reason. Considering I haven't heard of too many catching fire there, I'd wager it should be fine.

A few reasons:

- EVs could drive in the bus lane, thus those who got EVs could cut commute drastically in many cases.

- EVs paid no or little road toll, and people have an irrational reaction to that.

- Due to massive increase in property prices over the last decade or so, many were in a very comfortable position w.r.t. loan and could afford a somewhat expensive car.

- Until the end of the year, you don't pay 25% VAT on EVs when buying new. In addition, new EVs don't pay the "engine tax"[1], which can be substantial.

For a semi-random example of the taxes, looking at a BMW M440i Grand Coupe xDrive, if I were to import it, the roughly $60k sales price[2] would get[3] a $31k "engine tax" and $15k VAT for a total of $107k. This matches the local dealer price very well. For the same kind of money you can get a Tesla Model S Plaid for example, or pay a lot less for one of their other models.

[1]: https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/business-and-organisation/vat...

[2]: https://www.truecar.com/best-cars-trucks/sedans/luxury/

[3]: https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/duties/cars-and-other-...

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#207

Post by ender341341 »

saturn_vk wrote: post #202
jvanderbot wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We bought a model Y for two years of mortgage payments. It's a dream to drive! But the user experience is abysmal. Menus are deep, the entire dashboard is wasted, including the most valuable real estate in front of the driver, and everything is just too hard. E.g. Adjusting mirrors takes 3 menu clicks, don't even think of doing it while driving. Adjusting heating takes two clicks, and when you adjust temp, it clears…

> E.g. Adjusting mirrors takes 3 menu clicks, don't even think of doing it while driving. 20 years ago I was taught that mirrors should have already been adjusted by the time you turn the key. Has this changed? Why would you ever need to adjust the mirrors while driving? > it clears all your other settings and goes to "auto", No it doesn't > Seat warmer? 2+ clicks on center console It's over click. It's still awful b…

> Why would you ever need to adjust the mirrors while driving?

I find it hard to get a really good setting on my mirrors unless I'm driving (I do at least only mess with it on slow roads with no one around).

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#208

Post by exhilaration »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #27
tunap wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My cousin recently had a flat tire in her EV. Roadside Assistance did not have a spare, required an expensive tow & her day was a total loss. Dragging a toddler along made a stressful experience worse, as well. I did not previously realize most(?) EVs have no spare tire included.

Many new cars do not come with a spare either. I had a family friend I needed to help, and their Dodge caravan minivan, only came with an air pump that had a sealant to patch holes in the tire.

My 2016 Toyota Sienna came with run flat tires. No spare, no can of sealant.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#209

Post by krzyk »

fragmede wrote: post #198
krzyk wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Model 3 is 2x the price of Nissan Leaf, and Leaf is a bit price for its size. Leaf costs 2x the price of equivalent petrol car. A car that costs 4x the price of "normal car" is a luxury for my taste. And Model 3 is the least expensive Tesla car.

Eh depends on what you call equivalent. A base model 2023 Toyota Corolla is $21k, a fully decked out one is $28k or so. A 2022 Nissan Leaf is $27k. So not quite double.

Oh, you are right.

Nissan Leaf few years ago looked more like B-segment (subcompact - like e.g. Honda Fit) but now I see it is actually a compact (C-segment).

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#210

Post by KaiserPro »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #71
Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

Panel gaps don’t even matter from a pragmatic standpoint.

> Panel gaps don’t even matter from a pragmatic standpoint.

panel gaps are a sign of quality. Why are there gaps? at best the door hinges are not aligned properly, at worse the whole chassis is warped. Does the door close properly, as in seat where it's designed to? will that cause paint damage? when the temperature changes and the doors shift, will that make the windows fail to close properly?

If the doors are not aligned properly, does that mean that if there is a crash, the points where the load is supposed to be dissipated are missed?

Does that mean that its easier to break into? can I just get a slimjim down the inside and hoik out valuables.

If this was a budget car, that was engineered to a price so that _everyone_ can afford it, then yes, I'd let tesla off. its not a big problem. But its not, Telsa are supposedly a luxury car maker.

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