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Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

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Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#371
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am elsewhere and even here jobs are limited to within the country. Op is spreading a far right anti work from home conspiracy theory.

I'm surprised to learn that I'm far-right and against working from home, since I've worked from home my entire career and have a 100% remote team.

To be fair the GP only commented your theory not your person :D

There can be legit reasons to not practice what you preach, eg. to gain an advantage with fewer competitors :D

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#372
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP here, thank you. I've given many tech interviews from the hiring side and know what bombing looks like. In my case as a candidate it's less bombing and more a bad feeling after struggling with trivia questions or a time crunch. Of course I don't know exactly how it's perceived on their side, only that they get back to me later saying they don't want to proceed. However between the various parts of my portfolio it…

To be honest I'm not sure you really know what you claim to know about hiring. On the hiring side, the condition for extending an offer is not "didn't bomb the interview", but rather, being the best applicant that passes the hiring bar (the bar may or may not be reasonable). Perhaps other candidates were indeed better in some of the cases. Perhaps the interviewers thought they saw some red flags. Or even some other s…

I'm not sure if you're saying I'm lying, all I can say is I've spent plenty of time interviewing on the hiring side. If you don't believe me then what are we even talking about?

I agree that tech interviews are first about meeting a minimum standard and second about being one of the best choices among other applicants who also met that standard. I originally said I was "rejected after the tech screen" which matches your take, it's other posters who responded with "not passing" or "bombing." So you are disagreeing with them, not me.

As for "obvious," you implied that public code on GitHub or elsewhere would make it obvious. The fact that no one bothers to look doesn't change that, it just proves my point that employers aren't desperate to hire, otherwise they would make that effort.

It's also interesting to consider how much of a boost a candidate gets from having FAANG or other high-status items on their resume. Simply saying "JavaScript developer at Google" is demonstrably a stronger signal than "JavaScript developer at No-Name Corp" even though all your points about brief descriptions and team support theoretically hold true in both cases. Or, if the candidate went to a famous school, that would extend a halo effect even to the No-Name Corp entry. Quality is apparently more obvious in these cases, so your explanation isn't the whole story.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#373
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We try to hire seasoned linux admins for our ops team. This has become difficult. I start with this technical interview question so I can calibrate quickly: "If I run the following two commands: mkdir a b c;mv * What happens?" One person so far has asked if globbing was active. Like half of people get the answer right if they assume it is. This question is deemed as "not fair", though, because it assumes a linux admi…

If half the people get the answer right, what's the problem?

If the question is irrelevant or about unimportant trivia then it's a bad signal to use to reject people. An extreme example would be rejecting any candidate who fails to call a coin flip correctly.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#374
post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably correct in that specific context: "till the existing teams starts to burnout" . Seniors would just call out on your BS and let your ticketing queue burn.

Yeah, I can see a number of scenarios where seniors can be more difficult. They're indoctrinated by a different process. If you want to do something they didn't do in the passed, they'll throw a fit, and insist it isn't needed; after all would a genius senior engineer like them fail to do something? No, they're too smart and accomplished for that. Similarly, if you don't want to do something that they HAVE done in th…

There comes a point in your career where a 60 hour workweek is unacceptable, and unnecessary. Yet some corporate cultures do not accept people have a life outside a project.

There is also the youth employment tax-credit driven layoff cycles the industry likes to hide as a subsidy. Over 28? good luck staying with some firms...

You are probably thinking this is some dubious startup, but you would be wrong... "They eat their own" is the warning most kids rarely heed.

Have a wonderful day =)

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#376
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ML falls into a few broad categories: model design, data preparation, and deployment. Unfortunately if you don't have a PhD, most serious places won't have you doing model design. To add to that, data preparation is very tedious. So the "sexy" part of ML (making the models) is pretty difficult to gain access to.

You don't need the Ph.D if you do Ph.D things (publishing at top conferences). Hidden cheat code they don't tell grad students about.

The unfortunate catch is that you need good connections to publish in top papers. Either that, or write some rather brilliant papers.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#378
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest I'm not sure you really know what you claim to know about hiring. On the hiring side, the condition for extending an offer is not "didn't bomb the interview", but rather, being the best applicant that passes the hiring bar (the bar may or may not be reasonable). Perhaps other candidates were indeed better in some of the cases. Perhaps the interviewers thought they saw some red flags. Or even some other s…

I'm not sure if you're saying I'm lying, all I can say is I've spent plenty of time interviewing on the hiring side. If you don't believe me then what are we even talking about? I agree that tech interviews are first about meeting a minimum standard and second about being one of the best choices among other applicants who also met that standard. I originally said I was "rejected after the tech screen" which matches y…

For the record I'm not saying you're lying (and I don't think you are). It's kind of analogous to what I said about self-reported past experience in the sense that I would expect (maybe expectation misplaced?) that somebody who has plenty of experience on the hiring side would better understand what happens on that side of the process.

I think your claim that employers are "not desperate" is probably true to some extent, but if you're screening for say 30 candidates, the cost-benefit analysis of spending an hour each looking at their github profiles might not work out unless in the "most desperate" of cases (and if they're desperate to the point where if they can't hire a superstar they'd go out of business, then you wouldn't want to work there anyway).

TBH my belief is that some FAANG or famous school is a better signal than self-reported experience on a CV. You might disagree (and there are reasonable arguments on that side), but at least whether one worked at a particular company or went to a particular school is an objective fact, while things like "built a well-received service with millions of users" can mean very different things. The supposedly rigorous hiring/admission process of FAANG and famous schools can be a useful thing to know because the hiring process could be quite similar, and thus a useful predictor whether a candidate is likely to do well on the hiring game at hand (not necessarily a good employee, that's another question).

I don't think work quality is obvious for those halo effects you mentioned. There's just some fuzzy correlation (about being in FAANG and interviewing performance) that lazy interviewers/managers tend to mistakenly conflate with employment suitability. There are many reasons why hiring tends to be broken, which I'm not going into because it would be a book length thesis in itself, I'm just saying there's no way code quality of your past work would be "obvious" unless somebody actually spent a couple hours reviewing your code. Nobody would do that unless there's some other signal indicating that that might be the case (and in 99% of the cases they wouldn't do it even if the signals are there).

So my point is that if you proceeded with the assumption that it should be obvious to employers that you're employable... maybe that's not a great assumption. I definitely agree that most of the time companies aren't "desperate" to hire -- and TBH you don't want your future employers to be so desperate. If you're not getting offers (and you want to), maybe you'd have to spend a bit more effort advertising yourself instead of relying on potential employers' desperation.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#379
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if you're saying I'm lying, all I can say is I've spent plenty of time interviewing on the hiring side. If you don't believe me then what are we even talking about? I agree that tech interviews are first about meeting a minimum standard and second about being one of the best choices among other applicants who also met that standard. I originally said I was "rejected after the tech screen" which matches y…

For the record I'm not saying you're lying (and I don't think you are). It's kind of analogous to what I said about self-reported past experience in the sense that I would expect (maybe expectation misplaced?) that somebody who has plenty of experience on the hiring side would better understand what happens on that side of the process. I think your claim that employers are "not desperate" is probably true to some ext…

    TBH my belief is that some FAANG or famous school is a 
    better signal than self-reported experience on a CV
Regardless of actual merit, it's definitely true in practice.

Just like the old "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" adage, hiring the MIT or FAANG candidate is going to be pretty safe in the eyes of your manager.

    So my point is that if you proceeded with the assumption 
    that it should be obvious to employers that you're 
    employable... maybe that's not a great assumption
Are you saying that OP isn't trying hard enough to sell/present themselves?

Or are you saying that engineers without fancy schools or FAANG-level experience just aren't very hireable?

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#380
post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record I'm not saying you're lying (and I don't think you are). It's kind of analogous to what I said about self-reported past experience in the sense that I would expect (maybe expectation misplaced?) that somebody who has plenty of experience on the hiring side would better understand what happens on that side of the process. I think your claim that employers are "not desperate" is probably true to some ext…

TBH my belief is that some FAANG or famous school is a better signal than self-reported experience on a CV Regardless of actual merit, it's definitely true in practice. Just like the old "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" adage, hiring the MIT or FAANG candidate is going to be pretty safe in the eyes of your manager. So my point is that if you proceeded with the assumption that it should be obvious to employers t…

> Are you saying that OP isn't trying hard enough to sell/present themselves?

It seemed from their wording "various parts of my portfolio it should be obvious I can deliver high-quality code and complete reasonably complex projects" that they might be assuming his positive qualities are obvious to interviewers. That's all I was trying to say.

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