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Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

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Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#81

Post by horsawlarway »

birracerveza wrote: post #73
awinder wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better, it’s extremely tiresome to a different cohort to see people make the claim that the future of finance is stuffing cash under the mattress and burying gold bars in their backyards

IMO it's the future of finance because you own your coins. Nothing else aside from crypto allows me to do so in digital form. You are free to disagree, even if you think it's digital beanie babies or whatever. Luckily in this case you can vote with your wallet, as I did.

Real question - why do you believe that "owning" your own coins matters?

Further - why do you believe that ownership is related at all to the fact that you can keep ledger entry with your wallet on it?

Ownership !== ledger entries. Ownership is a shared concept enforced by social constructs. It is not a fucking technical matter solved by a ledger.

EX: You sign a contract to send me 1 bitcoin in exchange for my car. I give you the car, but you never send me the bitcoin.

Who owns the coin? Because the ledger is going to let you spend it, but the courts are going to give me your shit. Same in reverse - I get your coin and then drive off with the car. Do I own the coin now? Because again - the ledger says yes, but our concept of ownership includes the idea of dispute and fraud - and the ledger doesn't fucking know or care.

Basically - your idea of "ownership" being limited to "my wallet, my coins" is both limited, childish, and insufficient.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#82

Post by [deleted] »

horsawlarway wrote: post #81
birracerveza wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO it's the future of finance because you own your coins. Nothing else aside from crypto allows me to do so in digital form. You are free to disagree, even if you think it's digital beanie babies or whatever. Luckily in this case you can vote with your wallet, as I did.

Real question - why do you believe that "owning" your own coins matters? Further - why do you believe that ownership is related at all to the fact that you can keep ledger entry with your wallet on it? Ownership !== ledger entries. Ownership is a shared concept enforced by social constructs. It is not a fucking technical matter solved by a ledger. EX: You sign a contract to send me 1 bitcoin in exchange for my car. I…

[deleted]

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#83

Post by zeven7 »

reaperducer wrote: post #63
woah wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t cryptocurrency, these are sketchy unlicensed banks with a cryptocurrency theme. People holding coins in their own wallets are entirely unaffected. I hope that crypto exchanges are outlawed soon.

People holding coins in their own wallets are entirely unaffected. I'm not a crypto guy, so this may be a very basic question: If people can hold coins in their own wallets, why did they give them to these companies acting like banks? Were they promised interest or something? I hope that crypto exchanges are outlawed soon. Isn't the primary use case for crypto that it's beyond the reach of laws?

There are some exchanges that have offered interest on deposits. Also some offer staking rewards. That draws in some people. The bigger reasons many people keep money on exchanges is:

- Self custody can be hard to do securely for less technically savvy investors

- Fast access to trading; some people want to swing trade or just have it available to sell or buy in a moments notice

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#84

Post by gerad »

humanistbot wrote: post #74
EMM_386 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you won't have the option of cash, the Fed getting into digital currency implies an all-digital future. No cash, and everything is traced. Nobody gets to be "paid under the table", no exchanging cash with your dealer for drugs, no buying things you may be ashmed to buy with cash.

> But you won't have the option of cash, the Fed getting into digital currency implies an all-digital future. That is quite a leap in logic, or "implies" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

Historical precedent, and the fact that most of world trade is now dollarized, means that it’s incredibly unlikely that the US will ever deprecate cash.

Unlike other currencies, all US currency ever issued remains legal tender [1]. Honestly, if you want untraceable transactions - using US cash is going to be way better than any digital currency.

1: https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_12768.htm

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#85

Post by mirzap »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #36

To the crypto-inclined people commenting on every thread about how failing centralized exchanges don't effect you and are actually good for Bitcoin, how are you planning to convert your hard earned crypto into US dollars that you can spend at a grocery store? If your answer is "P2P exchanges," how do you plan to secure your cold wallet against the infamous rubber hose cryptanalysis?

Who says they want to spend US $? If bitcoin (or any other) decentralized currency succeeds and gets world-wide adoption you'll not have to convert it into anything else. You'll spend it as money. That's the ultimate goal of bitcoin. With massive adoption price movements will stabilize so price move of 1.5% will look like a huge deal then.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#86

Post by danuker »

throwup wrote: post #29
danuker wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they are regulated, not outlawed. As in, "you have to be ready for a 90% withdrawal at any time". This would have solved every problem.

Sorry, 90%? Why not 100%?

You are right. I don't know why I said 90%. It should be 100%. There should be no incentive to play with customers' funds.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#87

Post by whatshisface »

dvt wrote: post #58
VHRanger wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is that they almost certainly are securities, but the precedent isn't established. White collar prosecution is expensive and complex, and prosecutors care about their careers. They want certain wins, preferably fast. So the SEC are waiting for slam dunk cases to establish precedent. In practice this means they wait for something large and obvious to implode, and prosecute months/years after the fact.

> So the SEC are waiting for slam dunk cases to establish precedent. But this might never happen. I can launch a lending protocol completely anonymously, pump it on Twitter/Telegram, and get 7+ figures TVL overnight. It might not even be predatory (even though a lot are), but who would the SEC even go after at that point?

There's probably something stopping you from getting actual 7 figures from that.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#88

Post by danuker »

bvrmn wrote: post #31
danuker wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they are regulated, not outlawed. As in, "you have to be ready for a 90% withdrawal at any time". This would have solved every problem.

And how to make it work with largely unstable crypto/fiat ratio?

Hold inventory exactly equal to what the customers deposited, be it crypto or fiat. The exchange rate matters only when trading.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#89

Post by boc »

mirzap wrote: post #85
polygamous_bat wrote: post #36

To the crypto-inclined people commenting on every thread about how failing centralized exchanges don't effect you and are actually good for Bitcoin, how are you planning to convert your hard earned crypto into US dollars that you can spend at a grocery store? If your answer is "P2P exchanges," how do you plan to secure your cold wallet against the infamous rubber hose cryptanalysis?

Who says they want to spend US $? If bitcoin (or any other) decentralized currency succeeds and gets world-wide adoption you'll not have to convert it into anything else. You'll spend it as money. That's the ultimate goal of bitcoin. With massive adoption price movements will stabilize so price move of 1.5% will look like a huge deal then.

Because economic activity is fundamentally incompatible with a deflationary currency like Bitcoin?

If I can passively generate wealth by doing nothing but waiting, so can everyone else. Only suckers would work.

This is basic macroeconomics but for some reason crypto believers just choose to live in an alternative reality.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#90

Post by throwup »

DebtDeflation wrote: post #75
throwup wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Some exchanges are irresponsible and fail. Some exchanges are not irresponsible and do not fail. If you do a minimum of due diligence, it's not hard to tell the responsible from the irresponsible. Do they regularly publish independently-verifiable audits? Or are they spending boatloads money on stadium sponsorships? 2. If you're using an exchange for exchanging currencies (as opposed to speculation) you can send y…

>Do they regularly publish independently-verifiable audits? Which exchange does this? I'm not talking about finding some mom and pop accounting shop to issue a 1 page report stating they checked on a certain date and the reserves were there, where the majority of the 1 page was a disclaimer stating that this wasn't technically an "audit" and should not be relied upon as such.

Kraken does at least. AIUI their auditor is given a snapshot of all account balances at a particular point in time, and builds a merkle tree. You can then reconstruct your expected merkle leaf and verify that your specific account was included in the tree. You can verify on the auditor's website, or you can do it by hand. Kraken's help page even has code snippets in Python/Go/etc to make it easy!

More info:

https://www.kraken.com/proof-of-reserves

https://proof-of-reserves.trustexplorer.io/clients/kraken

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