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Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

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Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#51

Post by politician »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #36

To the crypto-inclined people commenting on every thread about how failing centralized exchanges don't effect you and are actually good for Bitcoin, how are you planning to convert your hard earned crypto into US dollars that you can spend at a grocery store? If your answer is "P2P exchanges," how do you plan to secure your cold wallet against the infamous rubber hose cryptanalysis?

Monero has better security properties than the other coins, so one approach is the PayPal strategy: keep the bulk of your funds in Monero where the platform risk is minimal, and then trade into exchanges with smaller amounts that you’re willing to expose to custodian risk for short timeframe trades to fiat.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#52

Post by jimcavel888 »

UltraViolence wrote: post #43

In other news: the several international banks are moving forward with their "Digital Dollar" experiment. It's news like this that keeps me holding on to my Bitcoin. Once digital cryptocurrencies become in vogue again BTC will once again become valuable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#53

Post by datadata »

AndrewStephens wrote: post #39
rglullis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None of that exists in the crypto space. Bullshit. It exists, it's just that the UI/UX is awful and most people in the developed world have no need for it. But they do exist. My work on hub20 [0] is exactly that, to have a system that would let people and communities create their actual self-custodial "crypto banks". [0]: https://hub20.io

I should have made myself clearer - none of that (agents, lawyers, etc) exists in crypto _apart_ from the exchanges, which are meant to facilitate the transfer of crypto assets. The two problems with this setup are: * The exchanges are dishonest and unregulated. * The exchanges are exploding like a chain of firecrackers. So crypto is going from a state of having most transactions go through dishonest exchanges to bei…

Exchanges don't need to act as long duration custodians for them to serve their purpose or be profitable. Exchanges will make a profit from trading fees. They can attract capital and liquidity via market maker fee rebates. You can trickle your capital through an exchange to make a large trade incrementally and only ever risk an arbitrarily small percentage of your total capital. There are ways to run exchanges in a much less sketchy way, that while not perfect, would make the kind of horrific abuse of customer funds that FTX did not possible. For example, merkle tree proof of reserves.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#54

Post by shkkmo »

UltraViolence wrote: post #43

In other news: the several international banks are moving forward with their "Digital Dollar" experiment. It's news like this that keeps me holding on to my Bitcoin. Once digital cryptocurrencies become in vogue again BTC will once again become valuable.

Wouldn't functional digital currencies simply remove any remaning non-speculative use for Bitcoin and further tank it? I fail to see how it provides any confidence that bitcoin will regain value.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#55

Post by BoiledCabbage »

datadata wrote: post #37
AndrewStephens wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that house prices were for material objects that people actually need, and sales are supported by a huge industry of agents, lawyers, and governments to facilitate the safe transfer of houses. None of that exists in the crypto space. The exchanges control the price and regularly trade against their own customers, and recent events have shown that they are all co-mingled and propping each other up. E…

An important reason that house prices went up in the years following 2008 is because the federal reserve printed over a trillion dollars to buy mortgage backed securities to add liquidity to the housing market [1]. Houses have a real value, yes, but that value was propped up well beyond the fundamentals (similar to crypto) and got a "bailout" (which crypto will hopefully not get). [1]: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/ser…

The Fed printed money to prop up the price of derivatives, not the price of house. Huge difference. Houses themselves fundamentally have intrinsic value as an asset.

A currency has no intrinsic financial investment value. Especially not an arbitrarily created crypto currency.

The only reason it's price would go up is people speculating that someone else will want to speculate on it in the future, and will pay a premium to do so.

We all know what it looks like when the future speculators dry up.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#56

Post by awinder »

birracerveza wrote: post #14
exabrial wrote: post #2

Holy holy hell, I literally _just_ got my captital out this morning. That. was. close.

Anyone who still has any significant amount of money in any CEX, Coinbase included, is either not paying attention or irredeemably naive. It's especially tiresome the fact that people keep pointing at these disasters claiming "crypto has failed", when reality is the exact opposite: CEXs are the exact antithesis of the core crypto idea of decentralizing trust. "Not your keys, not your coins" keeps being proven right.

If it makes you feel any better, it’s extremely tiresome to a different cohort to see people make the claim that the future of finance is stuffing cash under the mattress and burying gold bars in their backyards

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#57

Post by reaperducer »

dvt wrote: post #24

Maybe someone can explain this to me (not an expert in traditional finance), but how in the world are lending instruments not categorized as securities? Let's say I lend you 10 bucks (and I earn some interest on the money over time T), you give me a receipt/contract, and then I sell that receipt to someone else before T expires (the price I sell at is some complicated equation based on your chance to default, inflati…

allowed to lend willy nilly without any regulatory pushback.

That's supposed to be a feature, not a bug.

At least that's what all the advertising posters and billboards and streaming audio commercials kept telling us.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#58

Post by dvt »

VHRanger wrote: post #47
dvt wrote: post #24

Maybe someone can explain this to me (not an expert in traditional finance), but how in the world are lending instruments not categorized as securities? Let's say I lend you 10 bucks (and I earn some interest on the money over time T), you give me a receipt/contract, and then I sell that receipt to someone else before T expires (the price I sell at is some complicated equation based on your chance to default, inflati…

The answer is that they almost certainly are securities, but the precedent isn't established. White collar prosecution is expensive and complex, and prosecutors care about their careers. They want certain wins, preferably fast. So the SEC are waiting for slam dunk cases to establish precedent. In practice this means they wait for something large and obvious to implode, and prosecute months/years after the fact.

> So the SEC are waiting for slam dunk cases to establish precedent.

But this might never happen. I can launch a lending protocol completely anonymously, pump it on Twitter/Telegram, and get 7+ figures TVL overnight. It might not even be predatory (even though a lot are), but who would the SEC even go after at that point?

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#59

Post by nayuki »

alexb_ wrote: post #48
coffeebeqn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really get the point. My dollars are already digital. It’s not like my employer sends a stack of 100s to my banks vault every two weeks

But you can still withdraw that for stacks of 100s if you so please. And these dollars cannot be tracked by large corporations hungry for any bit of data about you.

Banknotes have serial numbers printed on them. It's not inconceivable for ATMs to record serial numbers when withdrawing and banks to record serial numbers when depositing cash.

Re: Genesis' Crypto-Lending Unit Is Suspending Withdrawals in Wake of FTX Collapse

#60

Post by birracerveza »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #45
birracerveza wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who still has any significant amount of money in any CEX, Coinbase included, is either not paying attention or irredeemably naive. It's especially tiresome the fact that people keep pointing at these disasters claiming "crypto has failed", when reality is the exact opposite: CEXs are the exact antithesis of the core crypto idea of decentralizing trust. "Not your keys, not your coins" keeps being proven right.

Crypto ads all said this was the future. Sizzle sells, skeptics survive.

Crypto banks' ads*
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