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EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

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Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#131

Post by kube-system »

FredPret wrote: post #127
kube-system wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A squeaky belt can be an “engine problem”. A “paint failure” can be: the subframe rusts out and you crash. My point is that none of these categories can be entirely written off superficial.

Of course not, but in the mind of the consumer, who is financing the whole industry, some problems are problems, and some problems are annoyances

I understand the sentiment, but if I had bad paint, malfunctioning infotainment, or broken body hardware on a brand new car, it's not something that I would think "this is okay, I can put up with this". Cars are expensive and I think it's reasonable to expect to get 100% of what was paid for, or at the very minimum, name and shame them for quality issues.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#132

Post by themerone »

Gravityloss wrote: post #28
KaiserPro wrote: post #13

In Which magazine, EVs were about as reliable as normal cars, however if you removed tesla from the ratings, then EV reliability jumped significantly to way above standard petrol/diesel. https://www.which.co.uk/ has the details, but you need to be a member to find out. Basically the fit, finish and reliability of the accessories were trash.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

Lack of institutional knowledge is a huge problem at Tesla. They repeatedly have to learn lessons that every other auto maker figured out decades ago.

It's pervasive across the whole company. Remember when Elon was complaining about the lack of car carrier trailers, and making plans to build his own? Tesla was the only company with that problem.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#133

Post by lbriner »

It might match what others are asking, "what is reliable to the automaker/customer" but they talk about reliability and then start talking about flaking paint and trim that doesn't stick properly? Not really my definition of reliable which would be "it drives in an expected way".

Quality is something else and since lots of EVs are currently high-price items, it doesn't surprise me that shortcuts are made to make everything as cheap as possible so that's fine.

Then on my diesel Skoda, which has had 100 years to perfect, the auto-stop system frequently doesn't start the engine again. Anecdata maybe but my boss has had no problems with his Tesla Model X.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#134

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

krzyk wrote: post #41
mgadams3 wrote: post #16

I've owned 3 EVs and Tesla is the lowest quality car I've ever owned. Teslas weigh down the average b/c they're the majority of EVs on the road.

Teslas the majority? I always assume Tesla was a more luxury brand of EVs. Is there any ranking of amount of EVs by brand sold to date? AFAIR Nissan Leaf was selling quite well some time in Europe. And in 2022 I see BYD sold more vehicles than Tesla, but I can't find data for all the EVs sold in the past.

> I always assume Tesla was a more luxury brand of EVs.

Aren't EVs in generally really still luxury (or at least high middle tier) brands? Are there EV equivalents of a Civic?

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#135

Post by LudwigNagasena »

laputan_machine wrote: post #119
LudwigNagasena wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowered by how much?

Ah, the ol' "move the goalposts" technique! A classic for sure.

Well, of course "actually, it costs $2 per month in fuel" may be technically correct, but I am sure most people would find such concerns quite petty and beside the point.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#136

Post by leetcrew »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #71
Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

Panel gaps don’t even matter from a pragmatic standpoint.

from a pragmatic standpoint, getting me to and from work reliably is the only thing that matters. but I can get that out of a $20k corolla. a car that costs twice as much needs to bring a little more to the table.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#137

Post by HillRat »

bitexploder wrote: post #47
Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

Tesla software is not good overall. The engineering for the batteries is amazing. Drivetrain efficiency is good. The further the software gets from those two things the worse it gets. We ditched our model 3 for an e-tron and could not be happier. We gave up some range for an overall superior product. Our main complaint was the software, especially the shoddy constantly changing main UI. Tesla are good cars for what t…

Tesla's market cap in no way supports this strategy, but from a core competency perspective they would be an amazing tier 1 vendor. Not sure how long they can sustain being a poor-quality OEM now that traditional automakers and competitive upstarts are invading their niche.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#138

Post by duncans »

KaiserPro wrote: post #13

In Which magazine, EVs were about as reliable as normal cars, however if you removed tesla from the ratings, then EV reliability jumped significantly to way above standard petrol/diesel. https://www.which.co.uk/ has the details, but you need to be a member to find out. Basically the fit, finish and reliability of the accessories were trash.

From the paywalled https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/new-and-used-cars/article/ca...

> Tesla's electric cars may look like the future, but once again, feedback from owners reveal the brand's disappointing dependability.

> 39% of Tesla owners we heard from with a car aged up to four years old had at least one issue they needed to get repaired in the past year, which is twice as high as the average fault rate for cars this new.

> The most common issues are, somewhat unusually, to do with the exterior and are mostly minor. Those that experienced faults with the exterior (19% of all owners) or non-engine electrics (21% of all owners) most frequently complained about paintwork issues and problems with lights respectively.

> Slightly less common were issues with rainwater seals, meaning water can leak into the car. It's rare for a brand to have such issues in such numbers on its new cars, and indicates a general low level of quality with the finish of Tesla's vehicles.

> While the fault rate is high, the breakdown rate (or cars failing to start) is in line with the average for cars in the 0-4 year group at 4.9%.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#139

Post by sk0g »

LinuxBender wrote: post #120
starkd wrote: post #111

They neglected to mention the biggest problem of all. EVs in Florida randomly catching fire after a hurricane. It turns out salt water is not so good around EVs. "Fires are not just a concern in the presence of floods. Batteries can overheat, and crashes may damage the batteries, causing fires." https://www.utilitydive.com/news/electric-vehicle-battery-fi...

Salt is also pervasive on roads that get a lot of snow and ice. UPS is about to implement EV trucks here and I talk to the drivers all the time so I guess time will tell how that works out. AFAIK none of the locals own an EV but they do pass through here on their way to Yellowstone.

When I was in Oslo a few years ago, every third car was a Tesla for whatever reason. Considering I haven't heard of too many catching fire there, I'd wager it should be fine.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#140

Post by arkh »

ajmurmann wrote: post #65
Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

I don't get the infotainment software thing. Am I an outlier by just wanting the dumbest possible system for my phone to connect to and run CarPlay on? I don't want anything the car maker added, not even radio.

> Am I an outlier by just wanting the dumbest possible system for my phone to connect to and run CarPlay on?

That's one thing I like with my Up!. The infotainment system is a simple phone holder with USB to power it.

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