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EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

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Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#61

Post by tunap »

tunap wrote: post #21
kube-system wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintenance reliability Maintenance is planned. Reliability issues are unplanned failures. An EV may have brakes that last longer and no oil changes, but some EV manufacturers are adding gimmicky and buggy electronics, or poorly designed body hardware that fails.

My cousin recently had a flat tire in her EV. Roadside Assistance did not have a spare, required an expensive tow & her day was a total loss. Dragging a toddler along made a stressful experience worse, as well. I did not previously realize most(?) EVs have no spare tire included.

Replying to my post to reply to all replies... that's a recipe for disaster, IMO.

I wouldn't travel outside a major metro, or on a weekend, without a spare; phone service gets sketchy when rural & the likelihood for monetary abuse by rando Roadside Service providers is likely to be very abusive, as I have experienced 1st hand. I always have a spare tire, jack, plug kit & air pump in my vehicles.

I do travel much, 20-30k miles a year, so I likely experience more issues than average... was zip-tying my shift linkage after a rock bounced up and broke it a couple months back.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#62

Post by bmj »

wlesieutre wrote: post #43
throwaway22032 wrote: post #17

Is it not just the case that there simply hasn't been enough time to work out the kinks? The Tesla Model S is only ten years old. So my 20 year old bulletproof Japanese petrol car is twice the age of the entire class of modern day EVs. My petrol car could probably have done the first ten years of its' life with oil changes and nothing else at all. I mean, it's done the last few years that way. But there's been a cent…

The EV drive trains are simpler, but they've come along with some silly bits like having to electronically open the glove box from the infotainment screen. Is that mechanism going to last 20 years? How about the pop-out door handles? I'm not optimistic. I'm sure the police are going to love that one. "License and registration?" "Sorry officer, they're in the glove compartment and when I tap the button it just makes a…

This isn't limited to EVs, though, right? My 2012 VW TDI won't open without a key fob (even though the ignition is still key-driven). How is that a "feature?" Just let me unlock the door with my key. I am very much against "infotainment" systems, and I wonder if some makers will begin/continue to offer models that do not have a tablet in the middle of the dash.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#63

Post by mynameisvlad »

btbuildem wrote: post #29
throwaway22032 wrote: post #17

Is it not just the case that there simply hasn't been enough time to work out the kinks? The Tesla Model S is only ten years old. So my 20 year old bulletproof Japanese petrol car is twice the age of the entire class of modern day EVs. My petrol car could probably have done the first ten years of its' life with oil changes and nothing else at all. I mean, it's done the last few years that way. But there's been a cent…

For issues with drivetrain etc -- absolutely. But it seems that a lot of the problems center around fit and finish of the body of the vehicle, trim, accessories etc -- stuff the industry has decades of experience with. It really sounds like quality was sacrificed for efficiency there.

“The industry” also had decades of time to perfect their process, and afaik there isn’t some giant knowledge-sharing system in place for new manufacturers to get all the insights of “the industry”.

A new car manufacturer is going to have issues in fit and finish for the first few years regardless as they figure out their tooling process.

I’m sure quality was sacrificed to some extent, everyone does it whenever they can, but I wouldn’t expect a new company to be at the same level as one that’s been doing it for decades.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#64

Post by jwozn »

thereddaikon wrote: post #25
Kon-Peki wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So Consumer Reports put together 3 of their top hybrids here. The Lexus NX came out a few years ago in the premium luxury segment here. Very nice car, attractive car, good mileage there. The Ford Maverick. Now we actually had this truck. It is a small compact utility pickup truck. Unibody construction, 38 MPG with hybrid. Yeah. What's really surprising about the Ford Maverick rated so highly is not really that it's…

Affordable trucks have mostly disappeared. They have been climbing up the price brackets for a few generations now. Its gotten to the point that before the Maverick your choices were either absurdly expensive luxury truck or buying a trim meant for commercial use that has no features at all. There did not exist a normal truck anymore. Well, they did nominally. But good luck finding one for sale. Why sell lower tier F…

I read also read reviews, and while I agree with your conclusions I also think the reviewers still loved it! Mediocre in that you don't get many bells and whistles, less capable because you have a smaller bed, lower towing capacity, and can't be beat to hell like some older trucks. But affordability, size, and utility make it a hit.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#65

Post by ajmurmann »

Gravityloss wrote: post #28
KaiserPro wrote: post #13

In Which magazine, EVs were about as reliable as normal cars, however if you removed tesla from the ratings, then EV reliability jumped significantly to way above standard petrol/diesel. https://www.which.co.uk/ has the details, but you need to be a member to find out. Basically the fit, finish and reliability of the accessories were trash.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

I don't get the infotainment software thing. Am I an outlier by just wanting the dumbest possible system for my phone to connect to and run CarPlay on? I don't want anything the car maker added, not even radio.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#66

Post by laserbeam »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #17

Is it not just the case that there simply hasn't been enough time to work out the kinks? The Tesla Model S is only ten years old. So my 20 year old bulletproof Japanese petrol car is twice the age of the entire class of modern day EVs. My petrol car could probably have done the first ten years of its' life with oil changes and nothing else at all. I mean, it's done the last few years that way. But there's been a cent…

> Is it not just the case that there simply hasn't been enough time to work out the kinks?

Obviously. Any such report (accurate or otherwise) would show you a snapshot of how things are right now. It won't tell you why or predict how the reliability might change.

It makes perfect sense that Tesla would still need to iron out issues related to build quality (unlike automakers who have been working on those for decades), and that other automakers would have to iron out issues related to the electric drive train (less experience in that front).

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#67

Post by guhidalg »

bitexploder wrote: post #47
Gravityloss wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the argument that "traditional auto makers" don't "get" how many people think - they concentrate on panel gaps or wind noise or door closing bump noise. Tesla isn't great there, but the Tesla software is good, and what some people call "kids" treat the car more like a smart phone. They don't care if your panel gaps are great - if your infotainment software is very laggy or crashes, it's a low quality car.

Tesla software is not good overall. The engineering for the batteries is amazing. Drivetrain efficiency is good. The further the software gets from those two things the worse it gets. We ditched our model 3 for an e-tron and could not be happier. We gave up some range for an overall superior product. Our main complaint was the software, especially the shoddy constantly changing main UI. Tesla are good cars for what t…

No post body was provided.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#68

Post by JshWright »

tunap wrote: post #21
kube-system wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintenance reliability Maintenance is planned. Reliability issues are unplanned failures. An EV may have brakes that last longer and no oil changes, but some EV manufacturers are adding gimmicky and buggy electronics, or poorly designed body hardware that fails.

My cousin recently had a flat tire in her EV. Roadside Assistance did not have a spare, required an expensive tow & her day was a total loss. Dragging a toddler along made a stressful experience worse, as well. I did not previously realize most(?) EVs have no spare tire included.

Is that unique to EVs? I'm pretty sure the lack of a spare is trend with new cars in general.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#69

Post by yreg »

njovin wrote: post #11

> And they found that for Tesla in particular, issues with body hardware, steering suspension, paint and trim, and climate systems on the models were of most concern. Rick and I tested the Model 3 a few years back and we found a lot of issues with fit and finish and parts on the inside of the car I wish they'd separate cosmetic issues from functional ones. IMO it's pointless to lump "paint is uneven" in with "steerin…

For Model 3 in particular, the cars made in Shanghai which we receive in Europe have much much higher build quality (in terms of paint, pannel gaps, …) than the ones that used to be shipped from USA.

Ultimately I think it takes a new company a few tries and building a few factories to learn how to mass produce cars with satisfactory quality of these "details". Berlin is also good afaik and I expect the same of Tesla's next production lines.

Re: EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports

#70

Post by hotpotamus »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #40
hotpotamus wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes sense, but I can't imagine that brake wear in particular moves the needle very much. I typically just change the brake pads every 60,000 miles or so and that's like a $50 expense if you buy the nice pads and new hardware set for my car. Of course, I don't drive some exotic car with carbon ceramic stuff that costs $8K to replace (my car seems to stop well enough regardless).

>That makes sense, but I can't imagine that brake wear in particular moves the needle very much It only matters if you're doing a TCO comparison that's time constrained to the first 100-150k where nothing expensive happens anyway. The difference between 2 vs 3 brake jobs or pad slaps vs pad slaps and rotors in that time will dominate the cost.

I'm also thinking about DIY vs going to a retail mechanic which will probably add a couple hundred dollars to the cost.
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