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Digital books wear out faster than physical books

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Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#251
post #196
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HTML isn't immune from broken backwards compatibility. The frame element has been completely removed, the hgroup element is gone, and so is the dir element. acronym is deprecated in favour of abbr. isindex, plaintext, xmp, and listing are all dead. The attributes border, clear, background and bgcolor have all been removed by HTML, and shifted to be CSS' responsibility instead. Just moving between EPUB 2 and EPUB 3, y…

Yes, but all of those deprecated elements can still be rendered just fine by some of the current browsers. And even if, say, you couldn't display an index page with frameset, then the stuff inside the frames is just plain old html files anyway, which you can display easily. bgcolor, etc. all still render fine in current browsers as well. The main thing is that information which is important to people will get convert…

> The main thing is that information which is important to people will get converted to newer formats over time, just as old print books get reprinted if they're popular.

Vs. decent-quality old "dead tree" books, properly stored, can be ignored for centuries and still be perfectly fine.

You might want to ask a good historian or librarian about all the incredibly important (historically, to us, now) documents which we know existed, but we do not have, because there was no continuously-operated, high-budget "Holy Brothers of Document Preservation" monastery doing all the re-copy work needed to preserve them. (And maintain off-site backups in case of fire at the Monastery, and ...)

(If you aren't familiar - most of the materials used for documents in ancient times degrade fairly quickly. Unless (say) carefully stashed in a nice, dry cave in an arid climate. And even that stuff tends to be "crumble if you touch it" fragile.)

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#252
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HTML isn't immune from broken backwards compatibility. The frame element has been completely removed, the hgroup element is gone, and so is the dir element. acronym is deprecated in favour of abbr. isindex, plaintext, xmp, and listing are all dead. The attributes border, clear, background and bgcolor have all been removed by HTML, and shifted to be CSS' responsibility instead. Just moving between EPUB 2 and EPUB 3, y…

(hgroup is in the HTML living standard: https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/sections.html#the-hgr... )

But it was removed in 2013 [0]. So depending on age and strictness of your rendering engine, you don't have a guarantee for how it'll be handled.

[0] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013A...

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They actually store multiple copies. They even use IPFS to store it over decentralized network. But copyright is the main issue we don't see many services like open library or internet archive. Rest in peace Aaron Swartz

Also remember the man responsible for his death: Stephen Heymann. Lest we forget.

Saying anyone is "responsible" for a suicide is disingenuous

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#256
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HTML, XML, and ZIP files aren't going anywhere I wouldn’t be surprised if some of those go out of use in a few hundred years, if not much earlier. There will probably be major conversion efforts going on at some point. The alternative, the above formats being maintained for eternity, would be somehow depressing.

I looked up those formats and they are all around 30 years old, which is insane for technology and around when Windows 3.1 and Mac OS 7 were released. So maybe they will stay... They are all-but deprecated though: HTML 1.0 is much different from HTML5 (2014); XML is upgraded to XML 1.1 (2004) and most people use JSON nowadays; and ZIP is very inferior to gzip and 7-zip. We're lucky web browsers are strict with never…

Gzip is not a container format. Pkzip is far more flexible.

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#257

Physical books wear out in decades to centuries, computers break in years to decades. Also digital formats are constantly evolving and backwards compatibility for old formats is removed. Even without publisher/legal issues it's clear that preservation of digital media for even the next 10 years , and especially for the next 100 or 1000, is at risk. But I really wonder why is there no other major service like the Inte…

You could use a laser to burn bubbles into a Qwartz crystal, for longer lasting digital media.

Or printing it on paper...oh wait that's a book ;)

BTW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_World_Archive#Storage_a...

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trade paperbacks will wear out in months or years I'm extremely dubious of this claim. Decades, I could start to believe. *Months*? I've never had a paperback be unusable within a decade. Do you have any citations or data for trade paperbacks wearing out in months ? It's just *so* incongruous with my personal experience of even the cheapest paperback I've ever bought.

> citations My own experience - having a brand new paperback litter pages on my first read. Or buying a book only to find that the last signature was a duplicate of the one prior to it. I've also had a manga spine break on a second reading, literally dropping a whole section of pages on my lap.

How are you reading them? Are you bending the cover to the back while reading?

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#259
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also digital formats are constantly evolving and backwards compatibility for old formats is removed. While that was certainly true at one time, Unicode text, HTML, XML, and ZIP files aren't going anywhere (or there'll be a collapse of society so thorough that print books are unlikely to survive, either). EPUB books are basically XHTML and XML zipped up along with any external assets (e.g., images). There are nuance…

HTML isn't immune from broken backwards compatibility. The frame element has been completely removed, the hgroup element is gone, and so is the dir element. acronym is deprecated in favour of abbr. isindex, plaintext, xmp, and listing are all dead. The attributes border, clear, background and bgcolor have all been removed by HTML, and shifted to be CSS' responsibility instead. Just moving between EPUB 2 and EPUB 3, y…

None of that is unreadable. You can always download a browser from a few years back and open the page with that. So while there may be some inconvenience with old information, there is no loss of content.

Re: Digital books wear out faster than physical books

#260
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade paperbacks will wear out in months or years. Zip files containing HTML documents... we'll be able to read them for a very long time.

LOL. Were are you from? I have books from 1800 at home.

Maybe from Hogwarts...have you seen want they do with their books?
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