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Emergency SOS via satellite

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Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#251

Post by ghaff »

tialaramex wrote: post #235
ghaff wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>PLB users generally do trust that their devices work the first time they're used for real, and this trust is backed up by a lot of real world use. Although they are not foolproof. See for example the story of Kate Matrosova. [1] Basically, mountain shadows made the location readings erratic which, in combination with extremely bad weather, meant rescuers couldn't find her. [1] https://www3.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015…

Note that http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/reviews-winterhikingKM.ht... for example says Kate did not have a PLB, but only a SPOT (one of the many commercial products in this space) PLBs are tested down to -40° so it might have stayed working for longer as the weather got worse. It is of course impossible to say if Kate might have survived under other circumstances except that (not very interestingly) if she's deci…

It's been a while since I read the book on this. I'm not sure if it got into the exact equipment or not. Certainly if SAR had an accurate fix from the beginning there would have been at least some hope for a rescue.

The book was interesting mostly for all the SAR detail. The accident, sadly, was mostly in the category of--however fit and well-equipped you are--don't try to beat a very bad incoming storm on an exposed ridge line in the middle of winter. If she had turned around at Madison Hut or wherever she'd have been fine.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#253

Post by nradov »

MarkMarine wrote: post #141
alphakilo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Echoing others, I don't think this will have a huge impact as iPhone SOS is a last resort for those who are unprepared Garmin inReach is a robust and rugged satellite communicator that out classes iPhone emergency SOS greatly - inreach doesn't require "tracking" the satellite as it has a stronger antenna - inreach is more waterproof, dust proof atd shock resistant (no touch screen) - inreach has higher battery life,…

I don’t see the market for a high end dive watch without air integration, but with the UX they have. The people that don’t care about AI dive with a perdix or tables, but basically require something you can operate with gloves on. The rest of them with the money for a nice watch really want AI.

Garmin sells a high-end dive watch without air integration as the Descent Mk2 / Mk2S. They also have the Mk2i with AI. They don't release sales numbers so it's not clear how well those products are doing in the market.

Personally I use the Mk2 because I mostly do technical dives and have little use for AI, but divers like me are a tiny market niche. The latest Shearwater Perdix models do support AI. If Garmin launches a Descent "Mk3" product line as expected next year it might include AI as a standard feature across all models.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#255

Post by [deleted] »

brookst wrote: post #44
wstrange wrote: post #21

This is really going to eat into Garmin's Inreach market (ditto for Spot, Zoleo, etc). It says free for the first 2 years. I'm curious what the yearly cost will be after that, and how it will compare to an Inreach plan. On an ongoing basis, it's the subscription fees that really add up.

I’m not sure it will eat into those markets. Those are device for people who know they are going off-grid and may need both emergency comms and who (typically) also want to be able to let people at home know where they are and how things are going. My take is the Apple SOS is for people who are unprepared and surprised, and who wouldn’t have bought a satellite comm device and paid for the subscription because they we…

[deleted]

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#256

Post by tjohns »

ghaff wrote: post #210
jzwinck wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont own this but it is pretty much the standard: https://www.acrartex.com/products/resqlink-400/ These devices require a new battery every few years and that service includes a test done by the manufacturer. There is also a self test button on the device which does not send a message to the satellites. If you really feel the need to send test messages into space, they do support that but then you need a subscripti…

>PLB users generally do trust that their devices work the first time they're used for real, and this trust is backed up by a lot of real world use. Although they are not foolproof. See for example the story of Kate Matrosova. [1] Basically, mountain shadows made the location readings erratic which, in combination with extremely bad weather, meant rescuers couldn't find her. [1] https://www3.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015…

The person in that article was using SPOT, not a PLB.

Actual PLBs (not SPOT) have a backup strategy in the event the GPS signal is obscured by mountains.

If the device can't get a reliable GPS fix, the satellites will resort to measuring doppler shift as they pass overhead to locate the transmitter. It's slower (takes several passes of the satellite, so we're talking hours) and less accurate, but it will get rescuers to the general direction.

From there, PLB devices also transmit a low-power homing signal on 121.5 MHz (the aviation distress frequency) that SAR teams can locate using radio direction-finding equipment.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#258

Post by DMell »

ghaff wrote: post #225
DMell wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>on a device that is also more expensive An InReach Mini costs roughly $300 while a Spot device costs less than $200. An iPhone 14 is $800.

More expensive than the avalanche probe, shovel, and beacon. I was responding to the following: "You'd be shocked at the number of people who carry their beacon, probe, shovel, etc but not an InReach or Spot device."

You would still require a probe, shovel, and beacon. The difference comes down to whether you purchase an iPhone 14 or a device akin to Spot.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#259

Post by Mistletoe »

dpkirchner wrote: post #171
swores wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides, even if this feature only saves a single life, seems worth it to me. Not that I think it will only save a single life, but if that really were the full extent of its benefit that of course it wouldn't be worth it - think of the millions Apple have spent on R&D plus the (presumably tiny but it adds up when selling millions of devices) extra cost per device - there are many ways that money could have been sp…

This seems somewhat contrarian -- what changes can Apple make to their iPhones that could save millions of lives?

I wonder how much waste and greenhouse gases are caused by people constantly upgrading their phones. And the most important thing- money.

Apple has 200B in cash and investments in the bank and the 2024 National Cancer Institute’s budget is 10 billion.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#260

Post by bombcar »

giobox wrote: post #228
ingalls wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, super glad to hear your friends are out of the field safe. Want to address one point however: "The SOS button is very expensive. Extremely expensive" In my experience on multiple SAR teams (Search and Rescue), this is almost never the case in North America. Search and Rescue is one of the few services that is almost uniformly free [1]. Thousands and thousands of volunteer hours every year keep it that way.…

While this is great to know, the SOS button is still fundamentally potentially a completely open-ended liability if you haven't taken Garmin's 30 buck annual insurance option for it. Even with that, you are only capped at $50k to best of my knowledge. Your Utah example illustrates this. In a real SOS situation the cost is likely immaterial, but I can absolutely understand why people would wait a bit longer than they…

Having two-way communications would help tremendously, because then you can say "well, pressing the button will cost $100, but the person on the other end will know if I need rescue now or later".
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