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Emergency SOS via satellite

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Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#201

Post by ingalls »

COGlory wrote: post #123

I was just on the ground coordinating with 4 friends that got buried in 5+ foot of unexpected snow in the mountains (forecast said 1"-2" when they went up) for the rifle opener in Montana. I wound up getting sick so I stayed home (hilariously I was the only one who got an elk) but I sent them up with my InReach. All I can say is THANK GOD that I did, because it turned into over a week long effort to get them out. Two…

First off, super glad to hear your friends are out of the field safe.

Want to address one point however: "The SOS button is very expensive. Extremely expensive"

In my experience on multiple SAR teams (Search and Rescue), this is almost never the case in North America. Search and Rescue is one of the few services that is almost uniformly free [1]. Thousands and thousands of volunteer hours every year keep it that way. In fact, the two most prominent professional organizations for SAR (NASAR [2] & MRA [3]) both have longstanding policies that teams should not charge for rescue. On a personal level, I can tell you that the majority of the rescues/recoveries I have worked in the last decade would have been easier or led to a better outcome if the subject had called earlier. Embarrassment and fear of cost are the two primary reasons I have had subjects quote as the reasons they delayed calling for rescue, even after they knew self-rescue would not be possible. When you realize self-rescue isn't possible, call us early.

[1] The only counties that I know of that charge for rescue are in Utah: https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=54909102&itype=CMS... [2] https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2009/05/billing-search... [3] https://mra.org/what-is-mras-position-on-charging-for-search...

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#202

Post by rootusrootus »

sschueller wrote: post #37

Quoted post unavailable.

That moment when a European finally begins to understand just how big North America is. I'm surprised it still happens on HN, but it's so fundamental to many of the discussions here. There's always someone saying "why does America suck so much" while thinking themselves so smart, as if there aren't good engineers across the globe. There's usually a good reason things are the way they are, and it's not that you're the only smart person in the world.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#203

Post by freeflight »

dylan604 wrote: post #132
Kye wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can do 1/3 with my iPhone already using the lidar and 3/3 with attachments.

I don't remember anyone using a tricoder saying, "hang on. i need to switch attachments to do the thing."

Tho I do remember a whole lot of "We can reconfigure the tricoder to do the thing"

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#204

Post by Scoundreller »

rtkwe wrote: post #176
Scoundreller wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish Google Maps or Apple Maps made it easier to download a large swath like you can with OSM. Google Maps on iOS let’s you choose squares on the planet and download offline maps. Open the app, click your initial at the top right and you’ll see Offline Maps in the drop-down. Driving directions only though. But you can search for POIs and it will navigate you there. Or you can look at the maps/streets. I use it re…

Yeah I've used that in the past on Android and it's been very sketchy. The app will seemingly let the map expire and if I don't remember to check every time I go up to the mountains where I need it I'll usually get stuck without a working up to date map. It also doesn't seem to hold that many POI locations so I'm stuck just navigating to the right town and hoping I get signal eventually to find the actual place I'm g…

The maps used to expire after 30 days, but is now 365 days. I agree: it’s arbitrary and unnecessary.

It does background refresh but unsure how great it is. Right know my maps expire with different dates between July and November 2023, so I guess it’s keeping up to date enough.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#205

Post by dont__panic »

Slartie wrote: post #88
pqdbr wrote: post #27

From the article: > A text compression algorithm was also developed to reduce the average size of messages by 300 percent I don't think that's how percentages work.

Also, a 75% reduction (which I assume was meant by their 300 percent) is not that impressive when it comes to text compression. I'd guess that should be easily reachable with zstd by just creating a pre-shared dictionary generated from a bunch of typical emergency messages. Especially when those messages are partially auto-generated by a wizard-style questionnaire and will thus adhere to a previously-known structure…

You know damn well there's a new "Staff Engineer" at Apple who fluffed this "algorithm" up as an argument for a promotion from Senior Engineer. And likely a few product folks and managers who ballooned this entire project way out of proportion for their own career advancement.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#206

Post by DMell »

ghaff wrote: post #90
DMell wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Those folks, if they have any sense, have a dedicated device, as you state. You'd be shocked at the number of people who carry their beacon, probe, shovel, etc but not an InReach or Spot device. With that said, most groups have at least one and are playing the odds game that it won't be them that has an issue and can't access it.

There's probably a difference between one-time purchases and committing to a subscription service (on a device that is also more expensive). If I did a lot of remote solo hiking, I'd probably feel I needed to spring for it, but I haven't as things stand.

>on a device that is also more expensive

An InReach Mini costs roughly $300 while a Spot device costs less than $200. An iPhone 14 is $800.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#207

Post by Hippocrates »

Apple is building up a nice portfolio of life-saving features. Currently we have fall detection, a-fib detection, crash detection, satellite communication. These are all solid value-adds and differentiators from the competition. I'm not sure if they amount to a strong selling point for _everyone_ yet, but I'm sure that's where Apple is headed.

I am extremely bullish on Apple's ability to measure health signals in the next 5-10 years, that when fed to AI, will be able to detect health issues long in advance. This may take more sensors, more research, more AI development, but we're definitely headed there. At some point iPhone and Apple Watch will probably be marketed as the devices you need if you don't wish to die early.

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#208

Post by totalZero »

rtkwe wrote: post #178
brookst wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it is T-Mobile and Starlink, though very early stage (just a press release[0] about "a vision to give customers a crucial additional layer of connectivity" that "aims to work" with existing phones, far as I can tell). And yes, the Apple announcement is just the productization of a feature in the Qualcomm X65[1]. But I think this is a case where the technical implementation is the easiest part; I would be su…

I think it depends massively on how much it costs the company to provide. If it's just a chip and a bit more software I think companies will include it. It's not clear from the press reports if the money Apple spent on building up base stations for this are just for them or if the satellite providers could use them for other companies phones.

Knowing Qualcomm, there's probably a major royalty cost involved.

If Apple spends $450 million to enable the service [0], that's about $2 per phone sold in 2021 [1].

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/10/apple-spending-450-million-w...

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-11/apple-exp...

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#209

Post by ingalls »

davidwihl wrote: post #71
teeray wrote: post #17

If you’re looking for emergency comms where cell service is unavailable, you can do really well with a 2m/70cm Baofeng UV-5R. It’ll run you like $60 between the technician’s license (easy to get) and the radio, no subscription. From mountains (no service), I’ve gotten into repeaters 60 miles away. Knowing the community on those frequencies, they’ll treat your emergency with the same respect and decorum as those submi…

Getting that sort of range is not common. Most of it is line of sight. Sat comms work far at sea where VHF is useless. With ARES, you are relying on an inconsistent volunteer network with spotty results by location and time. I'm a licensed ham and have worked emergency events. I would not rely upon this if my life depended on it.

I'm also a HAM and work Search and Rescue, I would also never use this as my primary emergency device unless I had someone I knew actively monitoring the frequency. Buy something like a Garmin InReach Mini (~$15 a month subscription free) or a PLB (no monthly cost)

Re: Emergency SOS via satellite

#210

Post by ghaff »

jzwinck wrote: post #192
dont__panic wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any personal locator beacon recommendations? It's one of those items that I could very much use during bike touring, hiking, and bikepacking... but I've never bought one because it seems like a very large cost for something I won't even test until it is a matter of life and death. Out of curiosity... is there any way to alert your local emergency department in advance of testing a beacon, so you can verify that it wo…

I dont own this but it is pretty much the standard: https://www.acrartex.com/products/resqlink-400/ These devices require a new battery every few years and that service includes a test done by the manufacturer. There is also a self test button on the device which does not send a message to the satellites. If you really feel the need to send test messages into space, they do support that but then you need a subscripti…

>PLB users generally do trust that their devices work the first time they're used for real, and this trust is backed up by a lot of real world use.

Although they are not foolproof. See for example the story of Kate Matrosova. [1] Basically, mountain shadows made the location readings erratic which, in combination with extremely bad weather, meant rescuers couldn't find her.

[1] https://www3.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/02/21/the-young-woma...

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