Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40% • Hacker News Board

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#31

Post by ianai » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 3:56 PM UTC

consp wrote: post #21

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules for accident liability aren't as rigid and naive as you are implying. The rear ender having to pay is just the base case that is used in the absence of other facts. If you drive "in an asinine manner" (the definition of asinine is subject to discretion and negotiation between the relevant insurance companies) and manage to make the front of someone else's care meet the rear of yours in the process AND there…

Sure, if driving like a maniac, but you would argue the driver stopping for a dog on the road is at fault for the person crashing into him/her from behind? Maybe it's different in the states, I'm not up to date with all traffic rules everywhere.

It’s been my experience/understanding that in the US someone hitting a car from behind is almost always at fault. The onus is on everybody to avoid an accident. But that doesn’t include forcing a car to continue forward.

Also people commenting here are likely from widely disparate parts of the world with different driving laws. Those differences are more than enough to preclude useful discussion here at the extremes.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#32

Post by macintux » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 3:57 PM UTC

melling wrote: post #9

erisian wrote: post #8

Fuck no. I had to deal with a rental that had driver assist technology and it damn near killed me. There was a boulder on the road around a blind corner and the car fought me trying to swerve out of the way, I barely avoided it. Imagine auto braking on black ice or because of a faulty sensor. We're giving immature technology too much control of the vehicle.

Yeah, everyone’s got that one story in a billion that tries to be the counter example. I remember back in the day when seatbelts were controversial because someone was thrown free from a car.

Many of us are quite familiar with the reliability of software, and have serious concerns about trusting it to make the right decisions in a complex real-world situation.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#33

Post by branon » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 3:58 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #27

branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

Honestly, I feel like a lot of the people complaining about this feature are just bad drivers who regularly drive unsafely and are now getting called out on it. This in particular: > Sometimes, though, I will allow the distance between myself and the next car to close, for example, if they're turning and will be gone in a second anyway. The Subaru then ruins my well-calculated slowdown maneuver by slamming on the bra…

That was just one example. I've clarified my original comment, previously I was using the term "car length" in a way that did not make sense to others. I should have said "seconds of follow distance"

All of this is infinitely nuanced anyway. There might not be a side street. It can happen on the highway too when cars switch lanes to exit. And it's not like it happens every day, it's fairly rare, I just have yet to actually _need_ the car to do it, by a fairly wide margin.

1-2 car lengths (not in literal units of 15-feet each, I mean one or two _seconds_ of follow distance minimum after accounting for speed/traffic/weather) going the speed limit with my foot off the gas and over the brake, paying attention ready to slow down fast in case of a contingency feels very safe to me. Again, pretty nuanced, this only lasts for a handful of seconds while the lead car completes their maneuver.

The salient point is that I already do what the machine tries to replicate, I don't need my maneuver clobbered by another system.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#34

Post by n8cpdx » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 3:59 PM UTC

specialist wrote: post #20

Someone recently opined that the boffins should have started with collision avoidance. Then build up to FSD. Facepalm slap. Seems so obvious once said out loud. That'd be like a Rodney Brooks inspired actionist strategy, right? Our vehicles as boids, with implicit coordinated action, like flocking, herding, pacing, station keeping, etc. Maybe a bottom-up emergent behavior strategy has potential. Or a hybrid strategy.…

I always thought Tesla should have both. When I had a Toyota with automatic braking, it only kicked in in very rare circumstances; truly an emergency feature rather than a driver assist you rely on.

It would have, as a separate system, probably saved several of the Tesla drivers who drove directly into obstacles at highway speeds, which for whatever reason a purely optical system will screw up. Similar to how it saves human drivers that rely on sight.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#35

Post by speedgoose » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 3:59 PM UTC

JonChesterfield wrote: post #5

I had a rental with automatic breaking. Gave the really strong impression it wanted to kill me on empty roads. Not keen.

Not all cars want to kill you. Selecting a car based on the software should become more important in the future.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#36

Post by trgn » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 4:01 PM UTC

KptMarchewa wrote: post #12

Sure, but try to convince people who are okay with accepting (other) deaths just to feel "in control" of a two ton vehicle.

Why is this downvoted?

This desire to be in control of a car, or the belief one should be in control of a car, is a true curse on the public realm. People who actively think of themselves of good drivers, are invariable the ones who drive aggressively. It's never the ones that drive slow, boring, and predictable that reject safety measures.

For example; seatbelts were fought, the fetishization of things like acceleration or top speed capabilities of a car, traffic calming measures that reduce top speeds are always fought, speed limiters are way out of the overton window, just mentioning automated speed cameras cause aneurysms, ...

People have unhealthy attachment to the brand of driving, the dumb shit that they see on car advertisements.

It's primarily a male ego thing, and it's pathetic and needs to go.

Safety measures that prevent so-called spirited driving should be mandatory on cars: speed limiters, auto-braking, and lane keeping are a good start.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#37

Post by giraffe_lady » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

All I can think about is that poll showing that 90% of people think of themselves as above-average drivers.

The autobraking isn't getting in your way and you don't need it, it's exactly for you lmao.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#38

Post by WXLCKNO » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

Got a new M340i a month ago, first day driving it I get cut off by some 90 year old in a buick who didn't want to miss his turn. Was really glad to have automatic braking, by the time my foot had lifted off the gas it was already braking.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#39

Post by coredog64 » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 4:03 PM UTC

jacurtis wrote: post #22

branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

I have a 2022 BMW X4 and it handles it really well. It actually prevented me from rear-ending someone earlier this year. I have never had it kick in "accidentally". The lane departure can be slightly more aggressive. It generally works very well, but I have had a few cases where old road lines (think construction zone) caused it to veer into oncoming traffic. It has happened twice. Luckily I keep my hands on the stee…

Pickups are hard to get right. If you’re larping with an empty truck, the tail end is likely to come unglued if you brake too hard. If you tune it for normies, then loaded trucks will have longer stopping distances.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#40

Post by Workaccount2 » Tue, Nov 15, 2022, 4:04 PM UTC

branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

Funny story,

My sister got annoyed with the auto-braking on her new Subaru and turned it off. Three days later she rear ended someone, smashing up the whole front of her car. This was the third time she had rear ended someone.

She keeps it on now.