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Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

apnews.com

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Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#21

Post by consp »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #18
consp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who will pay The person hitting you from behind would be at fault anyway, at least where I live you are required to keep enough distance to stop even for no apparent reason, if driving in a lane and not moving to another. If you do it whilst moving in front of another car as it could be on you as you are required to yield and leave enough space to not hinder or endanger the driving of the other vehicle. This also i…

The rules for accident liability aren't as rigid and naive as you are implying. The rear ender having to pay is just the base case that is used in the absence of other facts. If you drive "in an asinine manner" (the definition of asinine is subject to discretion and negotiation between the relevant insurance companies) and manage to make the front of someone else's care meet the rear of yours in the process AND there…

Sure, if driving like a maniac, but you would argue the driver stopping for a dog on the road is at fault for the person crashing into him/her from behind?

Maybe it's different in the states, I'm not up to date with all traffic rules everywhere.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#22

Post by jacurtis »

branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

I have a 2022 BMW X4 and it handles it really well. It actually prevented me from rear-ending someone earlier this year. I have never had it kick in "accidentally".

The lane departure can be slightly more aggressive. It generally works very well, but I have had a few cases where old road lines (think construction zone) caused it to veer into oncoming traffic. It has happened twice. Luckily I keep my hands on the steering wheel and it feels the resistance and submits to my judgement. But for all those people that drive with their knees or text while driving, it could be problematic.

I'm comparing this to a 2020 F-150 Platinum that I had previously. It's automatic braking was awful. It had false alarms constantly. The lane departure was equally horrible. I find it interesting that the article pointed out how specifically terrible pickup trucks are with automatic braking technology and I thought back to my F-150. Since the F150 is the most common truck on the road (actually the most common vehicle in America period), I wonder how much of that statistic is being dragged down by Ford's terrible technology alone. Everyone I know with that on an F150 has turned it off because its so bad.

I think the brand and implementation of this technology is very brand-specific. I have driven my parent's 2021 VW Atlas quite a bit which is equipped with both technologies and it is "fine". Not great and not bad. I've seen a few false alarms already in the shorter amount of time I have been in it. They were constant in the Ford and I have yet to experience one after 12 months of daily driving in the BMW.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#23

Post by branon »

s0rce wrote: post #16
branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

I just bought a 2023 Crosstrek and haven't really noticed it kicking on too aggressively, it does beep sometimes. The only time I get annoyed is when its in adaptive cruise control and someone is merging off the highway it will think they are slowing a lot but its clear they will be out of the way.

Same experience. ACC doesn't brake anywhere near as hard as the emergency auto-brake, but when ACC is enabled and the car in front flips their blinker on and starts moving, I have to proactively feather the gas, otherwise ACC will ride the brakes until they have completely exited the lane.

Past that, ACC is a godsend, should be standard everywhere. Lane keep assist also works impressively well (the proactive one that steers for you, there's another "emergency" lane keep system that will haul you back onto the road if you start to veer off, which I've never had the pleasure of using)

Emergency auto-brake is _scary_ though. When it kicks in, the brakes make this horrible grinding sound, and you can tell the vehicle is stopping with all its might. You feel like you've done something wrong even if it's clear that the maneuver was safe.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#24

Post by imdsm »

In my experience, I only had my car activate this once in 8 years. I was on the M6, and it was slowing down, I changed lane and start slowing, and somehow just miscalculated, and was still going 10 mph when the other car was stopped. I was just too relaxed, and it kicked in and braked for me. Saved me a rear end, and became worth the money.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#25

Post by admax88qqq »

branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

Or just leave more space on the highway when someone is turning?

Auto brake isn't just for "inattentive" drivers. It's also for self proclaimed "attentive" drivers that can still lose focus at a bad instant.

A turning car can still slam in their brakes when they're not completely out of your lane. Its rare, so your maneuver will be fine most of the time. But sometimes other drivers do unexpected things.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#26

Post by branon »

admax88qqq wrote: post #25
branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

Or just leave more space on the highway when someone is turning? Auto brake isn't just for "inattentive" drivers. It's also for self proclaimed "attentive" drivers that can still lose focus at a bad instant. A turning car can still slam in their brakes when they're not completely out of your lane. Its rare, so your maneuver will be fine most of the time. But sometimes other drivers do unexpected things.

Fair enough, could definitely happen. I figure I _do_ still leave enough space even when closing though. I've never wrecked a car yet, so I tend to doubt the machine when it challenges a what I'm pretty sure is a well-refined heuristic.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#27

Post by CydeWeys »

branon wrote: post #10

Oof, my experience with with auto-brake in a 2021 Subaru Crosstrek (anecdotal, sample size of one, all that good stuff) is much the opposite. It's too sensitive and tends to brake shockingly hard during fairly mundane maneuvers. When backing up near a wall/obstacle, the auto-brake seems to kick in when anything is closer than three or four feet away from the bumper. I use my mirrors and have an accurate impression of…

Honestly, I feel like a lot of the people complaining about this feature are just bad drivers who regularly drive unsafely and are now getting called out on it. This in particular:

> Sometimes, though, I will allow the distance between myself and the next car to close, for example, if they're turning and will be gone in a second anyway. The Subaru then ruins my well-calculated slowdown maneuver by slamming on the brakes because it thinks I'm approaching the vehicle ahead of me too quickly. Well, yes, maybe, but they're also halfway out of the lane already so it's not terribly significant that I'm only one car-length away and still going 40 MPH. Another half-second and they'll be gone, restoring my follow distance.

You really shouldn't be driving like that. You don't know if the car in front of you making that turn is going to brake suddenly, like because, I dunno, they suddenly see a pedestrian crossing on the side street.

Personally, I'm a more reserved (I guess safer?) driver, and I always leave good following distance and brake predictably in order to do so, and I can't say I've had problems with these systems. And I'm 100% in favor of systems that force other drivers on the road to drive more safely as well. Now if only they could prevent tailgating entirely ...

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#28

Post by macintux »

consp wrote: post #21
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rules for accident liability aren't as rigid and naive as you are implying. The rear ender having to pay is just the base case that is used in the absence of other facts. If you drive "in an asinine manner" (the definition of asinine is subject to discretion and negotiation between the relevant insurance companies) and manage to make the front of someone else's care meet the rear of yours in the process AND there…

Sure, if driving like a maniac, but you would argue the driver stopping for a dog on the road is at fault for the person crashing into him/her from behind? Maybe it's different in the states, I'm not up to date with all traffic rules everywhere.

The challenge is that our tailgating rules aren’t sufficient for extreme cases. Two seconds behind someone is sufficient for most cases, but if the person in front of you, say, hits a wall and comes to an immediate stop, it won’t be enough.

So if autonomous systems hit the brakes much more severely than conditions warrant, it’s not obvious that the drivers behind you are going to have time to react.

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#29

Post by nradov »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #4

Headline claim only pertains to rear end collisions (which to be fair, are a large portion of collisions on our modern cell-phone filled roads). AEB won't save you from losing your shit in the woods trying to dodge that deer or road debris you couldn't see until last minute nor will it save you from entering a corner too hot.

True, but the latest generation of electronic stability control systems with brake-based torque vectoring are pretty good at handling those situations. Many cars already include that feature and it will probably be universal in a few years.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/do-you-know-what-torque-vectori...

Re: Studies find automatic braking can cut crashes over 40%

#30

Post by dsfyu404ed »

melling wrote: post #9
erisian wrote: post #8

Fuck no. I had to deal with a rental that had driver assist technology and it damn near killed me. There was a boulder on the road around a blind corner and the car fought me trying to swerve out of the way, I barely avoided it. Imagine auto braking on black ice or because of a faulty sensor. We're giving immature technology too much control of the vehicle.

Yeah, everyone’s got that one story in a billion that tries to be the counter example. I remember back in the day when seatbelts were controversial because someone was thrown free from a car.

AEB is absolute magic for preventing rear endings by distracted drivers in stop and go traffic. People who's behavior doesn't tend to come with much risk of this will experience mostly false positives from AEB hence why "everyone" has a story.
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