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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#471

Post by wrycoder »

throwaway049 wrote: post #61
wrycoder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As soon as the EUAs were issued, the vaccine manufacturers shut down clinical trial followup and, in many cases, allowed vaccination of the control branch of the trials. Same for Paxlovid, where support for independent trials was refused.

'allowed vaccination of the control branch' People in the control branch were told they were controls so that they had the option to get the newly-authorized vaccine for real. Standard practice for trials that go well.

And so the long term effects of the treatment are uncontrolled.

I think it's standard practice for therapeutics, but not for vaccines?

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#472

Post by blacksqr »

robomartin wrote: post #13

One of my kids, 15 at the time, was one of the reported cases of myocarditis. At the time of his hospitalization he was one out of 700 cases. He was in the hospital for two weeks. While under observation after his release, we have not seen indications of lasting damage. No way to know what the future holds. So far, so good. We are still not anti-vax at all. In fact, I might go for my next booster today. The one thing…

>Obamacare, which was forced upon us

The ACA individual mandate penalty was eliminated in 2017.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#473

Post by dudeofea »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #349
hedora wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. In particular, the contents of the mRNA vaccines are a subset of what a covid infection produces. The anti-vax stance is similar to the claims that tightly regulated nicotine vapes are worse than high tar cigarettes. (Except that you can just choose to not smoke, of course.)

I hear a lot of anti-vaxy stuff about how the spike protein is damaging in itself (implying that you shouldn't get the vaccine because you'll have spike proteins flowing around in your blood), but they seem to ignore the fact that when you get actual covid the virus is multiplying in your cells and spike proteins are more widespread and more numerous. I see the argument here in this thread that the vaccine isn't real…

catching covid always involves an infection of a respiratory tract (nose, mouth, etc) but not necessarily an infection in the bloodstream

covid vaccines are always present in the bloodstream after injection, even if injected intra-muscularly

an early study in japan showed only ~25% of the vaccine stays at the injection site

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#474

Post by [deleted] »

hotpotamus wrote: post #347
jrumbut wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although it wasn't vaccine related, my wife had a similar bill for a similar reason and I learned a couple things: They may be saying the hospital or some provider within it was out of network, challenge this on the grounds it was an emergency. Challenge everything on the grounds that it was an emergency. We had excellent grounds to challenge a few of the charges from the hospital (clear billing mistakes), but it nev…

I have an uninsured friend who just gives them a fake name. Seems very non-confrontational to me.

[deleted]

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#475

Post by nonethewiser »

jzb wrote: post #160
ivraatiems wrote: post #65

I would just like us all to stop pretending that any of one's fear of COVID or skepticism of vaccines or distrust of whoever or whatever is about rational calculated risks. It's about how we feel, so let's talk about that. Look, everyone is scared of doing something until they're scared of not doing it. Everyone distrusts government until they trust it, and distrusts pharma until they trust it. Some people will wear…

"Can we just admit this isn't about logic or statistics, and never was? It was always a persuasion game either way." Kind of? The fact is that we've turned into a society where we can't even be unified in trying to prevent disease. If "the left" is for vaccines, masking, social distancing, etc. then "the right" has to immediately be against it. I don't recall any of my friends or family needing persuasion at all. The…

> Kind of? The fact is that we've turned into a society where we can't even be unified in trying to prevent disease. If "the left" is for vaccines, masking, social distancing, etc. then "the right" has to immediately be against it.

That's your takeaway? Perhaps you should start taking people at face value. It was about coerced vaccination, and enforcing masks, lockdowns, expanding government power, etc. You're conflating that with spreading the disease.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#476

Post by pvaldes »

frant-hartm wrote: post #59
anon291 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, except for the 20+ million lives they saved: There is no reason to expect 20 million people in the United States would have died if we had taken a european approach to vaccination approvals.

What was different in EU? Didn't we approve the same vaccines few weeks later?

The president was not promoting snake oil, for example.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#477

Post by shadowgovt »

nonethewiser wrote: post #457
shadowgovt wrote: post #373

If the risk of myocarditis after covid vaccination is lower than the risk of hospitalization due to covid infection, mandating vaccination is still good public policy. It ultimately shifts the risk around, it is true, but it still improves the odds of survival for the people who will contract myocarditis also, because there was significant risk of covid crashing the medical infrastructure. This is the part of the sto…

The question is whether or not you can ever morally coerce someone to inject something into their body.

It's an interesting question but (at least in the US) a culturally very well-settled one. There's an extremely long history of vaccination being required for participation in various aspects of society, from the military to public education.

During the pandemic, it broadened to "presence in office."

The three tools a society has to defend against rampant disease are hygiene, vaccination, and quarantine. Those who cannot or will not participate in the first two may, if necessary, be handled via the third, and this is pretty bog-standard "How not to have a whole city suffer from typhoid" stuff. As we're talking morality and not the law: there's nothing immoral about "No shirt, no shoes, no service."

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#478

Post by sokoloff »

dpedu wrote: post #456
sokoloff wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there a previous vaccine widely deployed using mRNA tech? If not, it seems like "novel" is entirely appropriate concerning certain uncertainties of using such a vaccine.

This seems like a setup for a gotcha, or did you label it as novel in your comment without knowing the answer to this question? Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, mRNA vaccines targeting infectious diseases including HIV-1, rabies, Zika and influenza were already in clinical trials, as were mRNA vaccines targeting multiple hematologic and solid organ malignancies (Pardi, 2018).

You seem to be the one arguing that, with respect to uncertainties about possible side effects, mRNA vaccine deployment was not novel. It's not a convoluted argument; it's a straight-forward "I think it was novel [with respect to the unknowability of low-percentage side-effects]".

If you have data that we did have a widely deployed vaccine using that tech (which I think, but don't 100.000% know, hadn't happened), then I'm interested to learn that.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#480

Post by nonethewiser »

origin_path wrote: post #5

I'm very skeptical about their numbers. Some time in 2021 there was a story about COVID vaccines and heart issues here on HN. The comments filled up with people saying that ever since they'd got their shots they were experiencing new heart-related symptoms they'd never had previously like permanently racing heartbeats, palpitations/fluttering, inability to do exercise and more. Unfortunately I'm not sure how to re-fi…

> I'm very skeptical about their numbers.

Well the study is funded by the vaccine makers. So we can toss it out before it's even conducted.

Same goes for anything done by parties who have equated taking the vaccine with moral righteousness. If there are serious health risks it will only be found by a skeptic with a lot of perseverance.

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