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Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

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Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#91

Post by jason-phillips »

heywherelogingo wrote: post #83
_ed7m wrote: post #30

It took me 200 applications to land my job, and I think the rest of everyone I know who’s a decent programmer had similar situations. The bottom line is that everyone has employment and only had to move for it if they’re taking a high (120k+ TC for entry level) paying position. This is “falling of trees” compared to any other industry. Being able to land a middle class job directly in the field of your education with…

I'm not in the US; if I had to send out 200 or even 100 applications I would change career. If I had to send 50 I would be starting to investigate other careers.

I applied to 500 openings to get my first job. I think persistence is what matters.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#92

Post by John23832 »

fdschoeneman wrote: post #58
John23832 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no proof of this. Don't throw that bait out there with nothing to back it up.

Why not? Do you seriously believe racism is never a thing that happens in hiring? Because it is, just as it is in academia. At least some of the time. Instead of shaming people for pointing out the real possibility that racism may be at play, consider acknowledging that it may be at play but that there's nothing the op can do about it and he or she should just keep plugging away. It's a numbers game, with or without…

Because you have no proof for any “end of year” DEI target rate limiting. It is entirely what you labeled it as, speculation.

I said nothing about racism in hiring practices. I was addressing the statement that was made.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#93

Post by ravenstine »

Contrasting with even just a year ago, the job market is in a lackluster state the way I see it. Don't be gaslit by all the people insisting that it's still a gold rush. It's not that there aren't jobs out there, but many companies right now are either laying off employees, under hiring freezes, or simply aren't that serious about hiring besides through nepotism. Since I got started as a software developer full time 9-ish years ago, I've been relentlessly blasted with messages from various recruiters. In the last 6 months, recruiter activity has slowed to a crawl, and I don't believe it's because there's something wrong with me. Back when I chose to stop working for almost a year, I still got plenty of recruiters reaching out to me.

To add to your point about resumes, people need to not underestimate the power of networking. Networking has been the key factor to my advancement for the last 3 jobs. It's just the way things are. People want to work with developers who aren't dicks, and interviewing is a time suck for both interviewees and interviewers. Today I was informed by a colleague that someone he was interviewing couldn't write a basic loop. Though the need for mere competence is reduced significantly, it's definitely still there.

Another thing to consider is to find companies that actually have a real profit model and apply to those. This is not the time IMO for feeding from the trough of easy money, because that whole phenomenon appears to be hitting a wall.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#94

Post by spoonfeeder006 »

perfecthjrjth wrote: post #40
throwawaysleep wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How legitimate are those? Do they have real jobs? I've just been ignoring anything from an Indian sounding name as they seemed to me to be scams.

Yes, they are real jobs. But you have to make sure that it is from primary vendors. Often times, many secondary vendors source for the same job listed by primary vendor. One way to cut down secondary vendors, ask for decent rates. If someone asks you to work for $60 per hr, just say NO. Even primary vendors have outsourced their recruiting to India.

$60 per hour isn't a decent rate?

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#95

Post by toast0 »

physicsguy wrote: post #55
toast0 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were desperate to hire somebody, they'd lower the bar on the tech screens.

I don’t agree - I’d rather wait than take on someone that can’t meet the standard, because they’re likely to be an active drag rather than a help. I can hire contractors if I need to fill a seat that quickly.

If you're willing to wait, I don't think you're desperate, IMHO. You're also probably right, most of the time, of course.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#96

Post by notpushkin »

houstonn wrote: post #21
jimbob45 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any reason not to tick 'African American' and 'Female' on those forms? Surely they can't prove anything, right?

34% of white Americans who applied to colleges or universities admit to lying about being a racial minority on their application 48% of people who lied claimed to be Native American 3/4 of people who faked being a racial minority on their applications were accepted by the colleges to which they lied https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/57...

How does this work? Surely you can't be white, say you're black and not get caught. Is that data perhaps anonymized?

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#97

Post by anon50118810 »

guessmyname wrote: post #33

I work at Apple and my team has been “hiring” for the last 2 years with no offers so far. Why? Because even if you are a good candidate, hiring is not as easy as people think. Among the many challengues we have I can list the following: 1. The people interested in your profile have minimal influence in the process, 2. There are people who are always chasing for the shiny new object (or person, in this case), 3. There…

I'm the OP and I don't mean to argue your experience, but my post was more pushing back on the idea that non-FAANG companies are desperate for people. In other words, I'm pushing back on the idea that anyone willing to work outside of FAANG for $100k-$150k should be able to find something super quick.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#98

Post by ravenstine »

oneplane wrote: post #31

I'm still receiving tons of mails and LinkedIn offers, even phone calls, and I haven't really seen much of a difference or decline. If anything, the compensation packages have only gone up, but the offers are as tone deaf as always.

That's interesting because my recruiter messages and emails have dropped off a cliff. I might get a few a week now versus getting multiple ones every single day, which was the experience I've had for several years. Maybe whatever bot recruiters are using to blast messages to me was decommissioned? lol

Not that I'm complaining. I loathe most recruiters. It's just an observation of mine that _seems_ to correlate with the state of hiring in tech.

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#99

Post by jimbob45 »

notpushkin wrote: post #96
houstonn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

34% of white Americans who applied to colleges or universities admit to lying about being a racial minority on their application 48% of people who lied claimed to be Native American 3/4 of people who faked being a racial minority on their applications were accepted by the colleges to which they lied https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/education/57...

How does this work? Surely you can't be white, say you're black and not get caught. Is that data perhaps anonymized?

How would they catch you? It's very possible to be of African descent and have white skin. Are they going to DNA test you?

Re: Tell HN: Employers are not desperate to hire developers

#100

Post by i_am_toaster »

ian_dot_so wrote: post #46

I think this is over-generalizing I've been both on the hiring side and candidate side this year and demand is still very strong (granted moreso for more senior applicants than junior). Couple of tips that have worked for me: * Make sure your Linkedin is up-to-date, you have "open to work" turned on and that your experience is filled with direct results and accomplishments. Example of a bad bullet point (Used javascr…

I don’t agree on a few of these.

I wouldn’t personalize your resume for any company, nor do I recommend writing a personalized cover letter for any of them — you have no idea the skill set that will be valued by the person reading the resume, as they are an unknown random variable. I feel it’s just a time waste and there is no proof that this sort of thing is fruitful.

Also fuck leetcode. I’ve refused to do the leetcode and still gotten the offer to do an interview without it. Imo, we should all show some backbone and stop accepting all this superstitious mumbo jumbo as the accepted form of recruitment.

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