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Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

fastcompany.com

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Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#71

Post by taneq »

bityard wrote: post #38
ilyt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't) So do hybrids. Burning fuel at power station isn't 2x as efficient as burning it in ICE engine; most of the savings come from not wasting power while braking

I love my Prius, but over my years of driving it my suspicion is that the regen braking contributes VERY little power to the battery, and I try to brake using regen as much as possible. I would guess that most Prius drivers (who drive the car like a normal car, which is even what Toyota says to do) get back a truly trivial amount of energy out of regen braking. It wouldn't surprise me if full EV regen braking is much…

I seem to recall estimates on various EV conversion forums that regen braking saves 5-10% range at best, and the more efficiently you drive normally, the less difference it makes.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#72

Post by worldsayshi »

colordrops wrote: post #69
nostromo wrote: post #33

Aren’t they mostly silicon and recyclable metals? If so, who cares about the waste? It depends on what’s in the waste that matters, not its raw volume. The materials used in solar panels are both highly recyclable and environmentally benign, a great combination.

They also last at least 25 years. There's no way that the waste from the panels is worse than 25 years of CO2 emissions.

My thought as well. CO2 gets dispersed in the atmosphere and is produced each time you burn fuel. Panels stay in place, the waste is produced several orders of magnitude less and you can collect it in the same form you produced it.

It has to be so much better.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#73

Post by KyeRussell »

colordrops wrote: post #69
nostromo wrote: post #33

Aren’t they mostly silicon and recyclable metals? If so, who cares about the waste? It depends on what’s in the waste that matters, not its raw volume. The materials used in solar panels are both highly recyclable and environmentally benign, a great combination.

They also last at least 25 years. There's no way that the waste from the panels is worse than 25 years of CO2 emissions.

Popular solar markets like Australia are filled with junky panels because we ended up in a race to the bottom price-wise. I can say with certainty that the panels bought by the average consumer aren’t lasting 25 years. In Western Australia we have the cheapest solar in the world. Just don’t ask how long your system will last for.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#74

Post by __pache__ »

colordrops wrote: post #69
nostromo wrote: post #33

Aren’t they mostly silicon and recyclable metals? If so, who cares about the waste? It depends on what’s in the waste that matters, not its raw volume. The materials used in solar panels are both highly recyclable and environmentally benign, a great combination.

They also last at least 25 years. There's no way that the waste from the panels is worse than 25 years of CO2 emissions.

wait, why are CO2 emissions "bad?" it might even literally take 20-25 years to "pay off the CO2" used to make, deliver, and install the solar panels...

to me it seems like our CO2 emissions are not bad and the effects on climate are very minor. this is playing out in real time as we make dire predictions that never seem to come to fruition. the world is ending in 12 years, said someone popular in ~2016. Well, halfway there, lady!

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#75

Post by epistasis »

morsch wrote: post #15
cjlars wrote: post #5

>The report projected that the United States would have a cumulative total of 7.5 to 10 million metric tons of solar panel waste in 2050. This compares to 292 million tons of total landfill waste in 2018 alone [1], putting solar panel waste on the order of 0.1% of total waste produced in the US between now and 2050. [1] https://www.epa.gov/facts-and-figures-about-materials-waste-...

Note that this figure is from the 2016 EPA report which the article claims (based on a new paper) may be overblown.

And to give some further context to the over-inflated 10M tons of solar panel waste stat (over 30 years), our carbon emissions from fossil fuels are about 570M tons per year into the atmosphere. That doesn't count all the equipment used for extraction of fossil fuels, all the massive amounts of toxic waste water that comes with fossil fuel extraction, all the ash from coal, etc.

Which is to say, all the concern, even on inflated numbers, was FUD and a distraction from real problems.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#76

Post by __pache__ »

worldsayshi wrote: post #72
colordrops wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also last at least 25 years. There's no way that the waste from the panels is worse than 25 years of CO2 emissions.

My thought as well. CO2 gets dispersed in the atmosphere and is produced each time you burn fuel. Panels stay in place, the waste is produced several orders of magnitude less and you can collect it in the same form you produced it. It has to be so much better.

I'm super confused, how is this better for the Earth? Aren't you using a gigantic amount of CO2 to make these panels that work intermittently, with giant batteries to help make them realiable?

Why not just use 1 reliable power system, instead of having 1 unreliable backed up by 1 reliable?

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#77

Post by VBprogrammer »

nicoburns wrote: post #67
VBprogrammer wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems with electric cars there is always another compaint. First came the long tail pipe argument, I think even the most ardent of naysayers have realised that that one is bullshit. Then the batteries were going to be scattered about the countryside. Except most of them are still in cars, the demand for batteries from crashed damaged cars is high and the life even in early models appears to exceed expectations. Th…

Here in the UK (and I believe most of Europe), they’re planning to ban sales of new ICE cars in I believe 2030. As such, 100% uptake (or close enough, perhaps there will some exceptions for specialised use cases) is almost guaranteed.

I'm in the UK too. I think the 2030 date is unrealistic. I'm pro-electric cars but we're still a long way away from it being the only option. At the very least we need widespread on street charging for the half of people who don't have the option to charge at home. Rapid charging is ok but not suitable for exclusive use.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#79

Post by Mistletoe »

__pache__ wrote: post #74
colordrops wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also last at least 25 years. There's no way that the waste from the panels is worse than 25 years of CO2 emissions.

wait, why are CO2 emissions "bad?" it might even literally take 20-25 years to "pay off the CO2" used to make, deliver, and install the solar panels... to me it seems like our CO2 emissions are not bad and the effects on climate are very minor. this is playing out in real time as we make dire predictions that never seem to come to fruition. the world is ending in 12 years, said someone popular in ~2016. Well, halfway…

There’s nothing we could say to change your mind since you’ve already ignored all the science that exists.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#80

Post by lazide »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #66
lazide wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Near as I can tell, a lot of people are just mad. Not about anything in particular, just mad. So really it doesn’t matter, they’ll pick a fight over anything.

As an older fairly conservative friend of mine said when I was trying to talk him into some new tech thing - I just don't want anything to change. Seems a lot of people are like that, and just knee jerk to any change.

Yup. IMO, it’s a sign of being overwhelmed.

When folks get older, a lot of things stop working as well as they did, including old learned behaviors and physical things too, so it happens more easily and more often.

But this isn’t just an old person thing right now.

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