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Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

fastcompany.com

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Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#31

Post by da768 »

thrown_22 wrote: post #22
ajuc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons is that a lot of these downsides are overplayed, based on long-obsolete data or false altogether. For some examples: - electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't) - rare earth minerals are limited which means we can't have everybody driv…

>- electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't) No they don't. When you add the efficiency of the grid, the charging station, charging the battery and discharging the battery burning a lump of coal to power your Tesla has _no_ advantage over burning a bottl…

Of course, on the other side, there's never any pollution involved bringing fuel to the gas pump.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#32

Post by vkou »

PaulHoule wrote: post #3

It’s a story similar to nuclear power, where people found it wasn’t that hard to extend the life of nuclear reactors a lot longer than originally planned.

Or a story similar to coal power, where people found it wasn't that hard to extend and grow our usage of it a lot longer than originally planned. Where there's an economic will, we will find a political way.

But all in all, it's very good to know that solar is a better form of power generation that we thought.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#33

Post by nostromo »

Aren’t they mostly silicon and recyclable metals?

If so, who cares about the waste? It depends on what’s in the waste that matters, not its raw volume. The materials used in solar panels are both highly recyclable and environmentally benign, a great combination.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#35

Post by VBprogrammer »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #19

Recycling solar panels is tough because glass fines are created, often inseparable from items that adhere to them. Those fines don't currently have secondary demand and they're a health and possibly environmental hazard. The CAPEX for recycling panels is high because size reduction and separation requires expensive (and expensive to maintain) equipment. I expect companies like American Battery Recycling, et. al., to…

I've seen at least half a dozen cases where off-grid people tried to buy a container load of used solar panels which, for one reason or another, in the end never appeared. I believe the demand for used solar panels is higher than the supply.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#36

Post by jansan »

heavenlyblue wrote: post #8
fbdab103 wrote: post #6

>If solar panels can last 40 to 50 years, which is roughly double what used to be the rule of thumb for their life span Presumably, these panels face ever diminishing efficiencies. What is the threshold where it makes sense to replace a working, but low efficiency panel with a new one? That is, if a field of ancient generation-1 panels is operating at 5% efficiency, is it worth the expense to tear them out and replac…

Usually, the warranty will guarantee a 90% power output for the first 10 years and a 80% power output for the entire 25 years. In fact, some panels can even remain over 80% efficient past the end of their lives. https://www.deegesolar.co.uk/how_long_do_solar_panels_last/

> some panels can even remain over 80% efficient past the end of their lives.

Then it shouln't be the end of their lives, should it?

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#37

Post by akira2501 »

nostromo wrote: post #33

Aren’t they mostly silicon and recyclable metals? If so, who cares about the waste? It depends on what’s in the waste that matters, not its raw volume. The materials used in solar panels are both highly recyclable and environmentally benign, a great combination.

It's the Gallium Arsenide, from my understanding. There are processes to recover the Gallium, but it produces a waste that's very high in Arsenic.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#38

Post by bityard »

ilyt wrote: post #28
ajuc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons is that a lot of these downsides are overplayed, based on long-obsolete data or false altogether. For some examples: - electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't) - rare earth minerals are limited which means we can't have everybody driv…

> - electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't) So do hybrids. Burning fuel at power station isn't 2x as efficient as burning it in ICE engine; most of the savings come from not wasting power while braking

I love my Prius, but over my years of driving it my suspicion is that the regen braking contributes VERY little power to the battery, and I try to brake using regen as much as possible. I would guess that most Prius drivers (who drive the car like a normal car, which is even what Toyota says to do) get back a truly trivial amount of energy out of regen braking.

It wouldn't surprise me if full EV regen braking is much more efficient and useful, though.

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#39

Post by thechao »

googlryas wrote: post #12
api wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One should expect monstrous amounts of FUD about anything that replaces fossil fuels.

Honestly, at this point in our hyperpartisan world, I expect monsterous FUD about pretty much anything. There was just a small scale war in my city about a proposal to slightly modify the way our library is funded. If that gets people riled up, then one can only imagine what multi trillion dollar industries can stir up.

That's probably just a yellow bike shed, though?

Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought

#40

Post by Freestyler_3 »

roughly wrote: post #34

Interesting - assuming the panels last twice as long also drops the per-watt price pretty dramatically, which changes the economics on solar panels pretty favorably.

Panels come with 20/25 year warranty that after that period they have declined a maximum of 20% in performance.
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