It's mostly silicon, how bad could the waste be?
Cyanide is just carbon and nitrogen. How could it be possibly toxic?
Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
21–30 of 290 posts
Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
On HN I find it precisely the opposite - if you point out flaws with solar, electric cars, wind, self driving cars, etc. you take a lot of downvotes
One of the reasons is that a lot of these downsides are overplayed, based on long-obsolete data or false altogether. For some examples: - electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't) - rare earth minerals are limited which means we can't have everybody driv…
>- electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't)
No they don't. When you add the efficiency of the grid, the charging station, charging the battery and discharging the battery burning a lump of coal to power your Tesla has _no_ advantage over burning a bottle of petrol for your non SUV.
This is a lot like the meme that solar is cheap - the part that's always left out: "At noon".
Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
#23"Experts once warned millions of tons of waste from solar panels was on the horizon" Eh, no expert ever warned that. It was always an overblown issue, taken up by bored members of the press with deadlines to meet and column-inches to fill with words, shadow-funded by oil interest astroturf campaigns.
Do you have some resources about recycling of panels? I understand the point of the article is it's no longer the pressing issue it was once considered (by some), but I am curious if it's now just a delayed problem, or if recycling is a solved problem? Thanks!
Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
#24>If solar panels can last 40 to 50 years, which is roughly double what used to be the rule of thumb for their life span Presumably, these panels face ever diminishing efficiencies. What is the threshold where it makes sense to replace a working, but low efficiency panel with a new one? That is, if a field of ancient generation-1 panels is operating at 5% efficiency, is it worth the expense to tear them out and replac…
That’s a good question. Setting aside climate change and fossil fuel issues, the general answer is something like when the present value of a new installation, minus installation cost, is greater than the present value of the existing installation. Estimation can’t be precise but after 20 or 25 years, the homeowner will have some idea of the remaining efficiency they’re dealing with. They might know the reliability o…
I was thinking of industrial installations, but similar issue with residential. I assume that not many roofs are good after 20-30 years, so by the time the solar panel warranty starts to expire, it is time to get a new roof. Might as well upgrade panels at the same time.
Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s a good question. Setting aside climate change and fossil fuel issues, the general answer is something like when the present value of a new installation, minus installation cost, is greater than the present value of the existing installation. Estimation can’t be precise but after 20 or 25 years, the homeowner will have some idea of the remaining efficiency they’re dealing with. They might know the reliability o…
I was thinking of industrial installations, but similar issue with residential. I assume that not many roofs are good after 20-30 years, so by the time the solar panel warranty starts to expire, it is time to get a new roof. Might as well upgrade panels at the same time.
Ah, sure. Yes, similar math.
I forgot that for residential, in many areas the replacement panels would probably come about like a typical roof replacement: after a storm, subsidized by insurance. That may be the case with industrial/commercial as well, but I’m not familiar with insurance trends there.
Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
#26"Experts once warned millions of tons of waste from solar panels was on the horizon" Eh, no expert ever warned that. It was always an overblown issue, taken up by bored members of the press with deadlines to meet and column-inches to fill with words, shadow-funded by oil interest astroturf campaigns.
Do you have some resources about recycling of panels? I understand the point of the article is it's no longer the pressing issue it was once considered (by some), but I am curious if it's now just a delayed problem, or if recycling is a solved problem? Thanks!
https://news.energysage.com/recycling-solar-panels/
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/oct/16/australi...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13640...
https://blog.veolianorthamerica.com/how-to-recycle-solar-pan...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-solar-recycling-idUSKBN1J...
Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
#27For conversational context, linking this recent article on solar waste touching more on the current state and concerns from the reverse logistics industry: https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-07-14/california...
Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
On HN I find it precisely the opposite - if you point out flaws with solar, electric cars, wind, self driving cars, etc. you take a lot of downvotes
One of the reasons is that a lot of these downsides are overplayed, based on long-obsolete data or false altogether. For some examples: - electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't) - rare earth minerals are limited which means we can't have everybody driv…
> - electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't)
So do hybrids. Burning fuel at power station isn't 2x as efficient as burning it in ICE engine; most of the savings come from not wasting power while braking
Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
#29Re: Solar panel waste may not be as bad as we thought
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the reasons is that a lot of these downsides are overplayed, based on long-obsolete data or false altogether. For some examples: - electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't) - rare earth minerals are limited which means we can't have everybody driv…
> - electric cars are still burning fossil fuels cause powerplants burn fossil fuels (yeah, but electric cars go ~2 times further on 1 liter of fuel even if all our power came from fossil fuels which it doesn't) So do hybrids. Burning fuel at power station isn't 2x as efficient as burning it in ICE engine; most of the savings come from not wasting power while braking
Burning fuel at a single power station that is reasonably distant from populated areas is far better from a health perspective than tens of thousands of small, poorly-regulated engines burning fuel within 10 yards of people's homes. I would take electric over ICE even if it were 1-to-1 on fuel consumption, just to feel like I can safely breath outside again.