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A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

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Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#91

Post by BeetleB »

guerrilla wrote: post #79
flamebreath447 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What doesn’t make sense about your statement is that CICO evangelists don’t claim that appetite or that satiation isn’t a problem. One of the best examples I know of is Greg Doucette. He specifically preaches CICO because for 95-99% of people it is about putting the fork down. It’s a generalization because, more often than not you aren’t controlling your intake if you are overweight. There will always be the minority…

> It’s a generalization because, more often than not you aren’t controlling your intake if you are overweight. There will always be the minority that truly have hormonal imbalances and need assistance losing weight. But we know it's not a minority. Most people who try to eat less fail, repeatedly, for all of their lives.

About a decade ago I read an interview with an applied mathematician about how he applied his knowledge of math to practical applications. I don't recall if he was working for the NSF or the NIH at the time, but his work for the past few years had to do with this.

He said that of all the contributing factors to being overweight, the factor that was clearly the most significant by a margin was food production per capita. If you produce a lot more food, people will consume a lot more as well.

Putting down the fork may not be an effective solution, but the problem definitely is eating too much. Other factors like how our bodies absorb more from the same food than they did 40 years ago pale in comparison.

Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#92

Post by Tagbert »

rojobuffalo wrote: post #87
kaibee wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's also important that you eat stuff that makes you feel full, fibers and greens. Changing diet also changed my taste, so I crave more healthy things now, while the food I used to eat honestly don't appeal to me any longer or tastes empty. Having tried this, by basically eating a lot of carrots, its uh, not the same as being full/satiated. Feeling like your stomach is full is just a completely different feeling f…

not to get down in the weeds but carrots aren't that fibrous, but their *available fiber content goes up 2.5x when you cook them, from about 2g per stick to 5g. leafy greens, especially kale, are better for filling up. and you still need protein and fat on top of that.

How does boiling increase the fiber content of carrots? Where does the extra fiber come from?

Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#93

Post by drowsspa »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #41
drowsspa wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Willpower is a finite resource indeed, you can't rely on that.

Current research suggests that willpower is not a finite research and "ego depletion" was a spurious finding. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/how-do-you-know/2020...

Psychology research is all over the place. If they mean willpower as this general concept, then probably it's not a thing.

But if you have junk food in your home some people (like myself) will eat it compulsively at some point.

Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#94

Post by dwaite »

newaccount74 wrote: post #40
drowsspa wrote: post #9

I've been hitting the gym for a few months now, and one thing that completely blew my mind was the existence of hypercalorics. Imagine that, not being able to eat a lot (specially carbs) and having to resort to these solutions. Point being, people like to spew out CICO as if fat people just don't understand thermodynamics. What I've found is that matters is appetite: some people just get full way faster than others.…

I agree that appetite is the most important factor. But I think CICO is still helpful. It's not a panacea, lots of people struggle to just eat the right amount (see appetite). But you can use CICO as a check to make sure you aren't bullshitting yourself. If you try a diet (eg. cut sugar, intermittent fasting, low carbs, etc), you will only lose weight if you have a caloric deficit. Eg. if you cut sugar from your diet…

counting calories gives you knowledge of what you are putting in.

The problem with people who pitch it as the answer (rather than one line on four full whiteboards) is that calories out is very difficult to control or measure, and will tend to reduce in proportion to calories in.

On the flip side, many people find that their base metabolic rate increases when they switch to a very low carb diet - this is both because using the nutrients in their food takes more energy, and because they are no longer suppressing their body's use of energy with overabundant insulin.

Low carb aka Atkins are typically hormonally-focused diets, not a caloric deficit diets.

Paleo is an autoimmune-friendly diet, not a caloric deficit diet.

Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#95

Post by brongondwana »

guerrilla wrote: post #79
flamebreath447 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What doesn’t make sense about your statement is that CICO evangelists don’t claim that appetite or that satiation isn’t a problem. One of the best examples I know of is Greg Doucette. He specifically preaches CICO because for 95-99% of people it is about putting the fork down. It’s a generalization because, more often than not you aren’t controlling your intake if you are overweight. There will always be the minority…

> It’s a generalization because, more often than not you aren’t controlling your intake if you are overweight. There will always be the minority that truly have hormonal imbalances and need assistance losing weight. But we know it's not a minority. Most people who try to eat less fail, repeatedly, for all of their lives.

The thing that worked for me was time restriction. I can't reliably count calories but I can quite easily look at the clock and decide whether it's feeding hours or fasting hours. Doesn't make it easy, but made it possible.

(lost 20ish kg first time with fitness and diet change, put most of it back on over many years due largely to buffet lunch in the office followed by bad habits, lost it again by using time restriction and that seems to have stuck so far)

Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#96

Post by dwaite »

bugfix-66 wrote: post #20
drowsspa wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once heard about one drug that basically works by making you nauseous to food. Is it the one? > Metformin is generally safe, but common side effects do include vomiting, nausea, and diarrhea. Those experiencing these unpleasant side effects might consume less food, resulting in modest weight reductions.

Many foods you used to like (e.g., sweets) will be nauseating. Other foods remain delicious. For example, eggs and cheese and meat. But basically, your interest in food will be drastically reduced, and you will eat just enough. This is an important part of metformin's beneficial effect on lifespan and health.

Can you point to any studies around this?

I've never heard of this effect (let alone experienced it).

I do know that Diabetes itself can reduce the efficiency of taste receptors, and metformin will sometimes cause people to have a metallic taste in their mouth (due to metformin in produced saliva)

Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#97

Post by AnonCoward42 »

drowsspa wrote: post #9

I've been hitting the gym for a few months now, and one thing that completely blew my mind was the existence of hypercalorics. Imagine that, not being able to eat a lot (specially carbs) and having to resort to these solutions. Point being, people like to spew out CICO as if fat people just don't understand thermodynamics. What I've found is that matters is appetite: some people just get full way faster than others.…

CICO as an assumption is important. It certainly doesn't solve obesity, but it makes the problem measurable.

For me it is mostly about the amount of sweet stuff, however in general it is about the appetite/calorie ratio. You can eat "unhealthy" food and still lose weight. My body wants sugar once a week or so, however that's still fine.

It's probably obvious, but avoid eating food you don't like, just because it is less calorie/supposedly healthy. This leads to enormous frustration. Experimenting however is a good idea, the more alternatives one has the better.

Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#98

Post by guerrilla »

BeetleB wrote: post #91
guerrilla wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a generalization because, more often than not you aren’t controlling your intake if you are overweight. There will always be the minority that truly have hormonal imbalances and need assistance losing weight. But we know it's not a minority. Most people who try to eat less fail, repeatedly, for all of their lives.

About a decade ago I read an interview with an applied mathematician about how he applied his knowledge of math to practical applications. I don't recall if he was working for the NSF or the NIH at the time, but his work for the past few years had to do with this. He said that of all the contributing factors to being overweight, the factor that was clearly the most significant by a margin was food production per capi…

> but the problem definitely is eating too much

Not necessarily. Eating too much may be the result of whatever the actual problem may be. People know they're eating too much already. They still, very reliably, can't do anything about it.

Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#99

Post by PuppyTailWags »

garbanz0 wrote: post #52
ethanbond wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not inconsistent (obviously, because thermodynamics), but it does make CICO a pretty useless contribution to the conversation. Not the silver bullet that proponents position it as. Successful dieting is about managing the sensation of hunger. That’s it.

I've noticed a lot of overweight people using food as a crutch to manage emotional discomfort or distress, even when they might not be all that hungry. So there is something else going on.

I have a theory but I'm not entirely sure that food to manage emotional distress goes through a different pathway or structure than other kinds of distress management. Like, exercise, meditation, etc. we know tend to be healthier, longer-term alternatives. However there's something breaking in the brain reward system where food is actually working as a reward in a way exercise and meditation are not.

Re: A gut-derived hormone suppresses sugar appetite/regulates food choice Drosophila

#100

Post by bugfix-66 »

dwaite wrote: post #96
bugfix-66 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many foods you used to like (e.g., sweets) will be nauseating. Other foods remain delicious. For example, eggs and cheese and meat. But basically, your interest in food will be drastically reduced, and you will eat just enough. This is an important part of metformin's beneficial effect on lifespan and health.

Can you point to any studies around this? I've never heard of this effect (let alone experienced it). I do know that Diabetes itself can reduce the efficiency of taste receptors, and metformin will sometimes cause people to have a metallic taste in their mouth (due to metformin in produced saliva)

It's easy to find studies connecting metformin to weight loss and loss of appetite. I'll leave that to you, just use Google and you'll be swamped with evidence.

You say you've never heard of metformin affecting food palatability and taste? Did you search the web at all? Just use Google if you want anecdotal examples. For example:

https://forum.diabetes.org.uk/boards/threads/loss-of-appetit...

I joined as after 18 months on metformin, my appetite and enjoyment of food is constantly declining. I’ve lost about 10 kg over that time, which is not a problem. But I’ve lost my appetite and, as a keen cook and someone who has always enjoyed good food, I no longer look forward to meals and get little pleasure from food.

or

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/anyone-experience-l...

Metformin changed the taste of food slowly during the time I took it. It finally got to the point where all vegetables tasted like burnt plastic. This meant that I didn't want to eat them.

And so on. Now you've heard of it! All it took was a web search.

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