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An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

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Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#151

Post by wil421 »

Y-bar wrote: post #147
mmarq wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europa proper, Winter is the period of the year between Dec 22nd and Mar 21st. In the UK, we have 5 months of Winter and 7 of Autumn, that move around the year like Ramadan.

I'm European since the birth of my grand-grand-grand-parents and until today I had not heard of the "Dec 22nd and Mar 21st" version of winter. I have only ever heard of these two: - Calendar winter: December first to February last. - Metorological winter according to our meteorologists: "the period of the year where the daily average temperature is below zero degrees Celsius" [Sweden: https://www.smhi.se/kunskapsbank…

I find it very hard to believe you don’t know that winter starts on specific dates every year. Not really sure how grandparents fit into it either.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#152

Post by Y-bar »

wil421 wrote: post #151
Y-bar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm European since the birth of my grand-grand-grand-parents and until today I had not heard of the "Dec 22nd and Mar 21st" version of winter. I have only ever heard of these two: - Calendar winter: December first to February last. - Metorological winter according to our meteorologists: "the period of the year where the daily average temperature is below zero degrees Celsius" [Sweden: https://www.smhi.se/kunskapsbank…

I find it very hard to believe you don’t know that winter starts on specific dates every year. Not really sure how grandparents fit into it either.

I have always known that winter according to social convention AND official calendars starts on December 1 every year. I have also known the scientific meteorological definition which is based on temperature.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#153

Post by Y-bar »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #150
Y-bar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm European since the birth of my grand-grand-grand-parents and until today I had not heard of the "Dec 22nd and Mar 21st" version of winter. I have only ever heard of these two: - Calendar winter: December first to February last. - Metorological winter according to our meteorologists: "the period of the year where the daily average temperature is below zero degrees Celsius" [Sweden: https://www.smhi.se/kunskapsbank…

'Winter' in calendar, solar terms in the Northern hemisphere , also called astronomical winter, starts on 21st December and ends on 20th March (there might be a one day shift now and then?). That is, the period from the winter solstice until the spring equinoxe. This is written on most calendars and that is what Google tells you when you look up 'winter'. I am flabbergasted that you never heard of that... Now, usuall…

Funnily enough we call that first day date “Midwinter Day” or “middle of the winter-day” here.

Maybe it it time to rename it to “Firstwinter Day”! ;)

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#154

Post by Tade0 »

ThalesX wrote: post #122
duckmysick wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider a winter?

I consider winter to be a magical time of the year when as a child I used to play in the snow, hear stories about horrible winters from my grand parents, and that as an adult I feel brings some difficulties to my life. When I read something like 'this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far', I refer back to the common interpretation of winter which is December -> March in the Northern Hemisphere, because other…

Well, most of Europe stopped having consistent snow, so we can't refer to it like that any more.

I remember when I was a kid come November there was frost on the ground and the soil would gradually freeze and harden, creating the type of environment needed for snow to persist.

Twenty years have passed and it's all gone now. We have droughts in the summer though, for which we're largely unprepared because water retention was never a concern before.

That's climate change for you I guess.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#155

Post by guerrilla »

ThalesX wrote: post #37
veqq wrote: post #3

Commodity traders and investors are very networked and really like such immediate usage news. Many firms also count trucks/traffic near sites etc. so it isn't surprising to see people respond to this. However, the causation is unclear to me. European gas stocks are at full capacity as is and this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far. A 7% drop is par for course in the last few weeks. An extra piece of bad ne…

> this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far I feel like I'm going crazy as this is not the first time I've seen / heard this argument. What does winter mean? I thought it was the months from December to February. I don't understand the narrative that we're in a warm winter at all . Winter, just like Game of Thrones, is coming.

Yes, winter hasn't started here yet (except meteorological winter in some northern places.) They mean fall. It has been an exceptionally warm fall though, so much so that we haven't even had to turn on our heaters. So the argument is still sound.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#156

Post by mindslight »

KevinGlass wrote: post #77
throwaway932489 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia has an interesting note "Cultural influences such as Christmas creep may have led to the winter season being perceived as beginning earlier in recent years" I think I've always considered November to be winter, and at some point I picked up that Christmas is in the middle/even towards the end to break it up and give everyone something to look forward to, so I'm always a bit surprised seeing talk of winter i…

Here in New England, USA November is firmly in Fall/Autumn And Feburary is firmly Winter. March is also Winter until the last week.

You forgot The Marmot.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#157

Post by ReptileMan »

ThalesX wrote: post #116
EdwardDiego wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just read "the cold time of year" when you see "winter" and you'll get past this.

I'm not trying to 'get past this', I'm trying to express my disbelief at the fact that: A - Things have gotten to the point where we can't talk about a damn season without personal interpretations of it; B - This has seeped into Hacker News, a forum I thought was for more diligent folks.

>Things have gotten to the point where we can't talk about a damn season without personal interpretations of it

If by personal you mean around the 5-600 million people that will totally get the context of winter = heating season especially when we are discussing gas for heating.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#158

Post by escalt »

ThalesX wrote: post #37
veqq wrote: post #3

Commodity traders and investors are very networked and really like such immediate usage news. Many firms also count trucks/traffic near sites etc. so it isn't surprising to see people respond to this. However, the causation is unclear to me. European gas stocks are at full capacity as is and this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far. A 7% drop is par for course in the last few weeks. An extra piece of bad ne…

> this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far I feel like I'm going crazy as this is not the first time I've seen / heard this argument. What does winter mean? I thought it was the months from December to February. I don't understand the narrative that we're in a warm winter at all . Winter, just like Game of Thrones, is coming.

People are saying this because so far it has just been much warmer than usual at this time of year, and snow in November wouldn't be the most unusual thing, and most people just assume snow=winter.

Some stats of my weather station in South Germany from this year and last year. It is much warmer this year, and even last year was pretty warm

Oct 2021: Avg: 8.5°C Min: 0.5°C Max: 22.0°C

Oct 2022: Avg: 12.7°C Min: 4.9°C Max: 21.5°C

Nov (1st to end of 11th) 2021: Avg: 4.1°C Min: -1.9°C Max: 9.4°C

Nov (1st to end of 11th) 2022: Avg: 7.8°C Min: 0.9°C Max: 15.8°C

I have no clue about weather forecasting and I can't exclude a drastic change in the coming months, but right now it just doesn't look like that at all

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#159

Post by bamboozled »

escalt wrote: post #158
ThalesX wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this Winter is warm with minimal gas burned so far I feel like I'm going crazy as this is not the first time I've seen / heard this argument. What does winter mean? I thought it was the months from December to February. I don't understand the narrative that we're in a warm winter at all . Winter, just like Game of Thrones, is coming.

People are saying this because so far it has just been much warmer than usual at this time of year, and snow in November wouldn't be the most unusual thing, and most people just assume snow=winter. Some stats of my weather station in South Germany from this year and last year. It is much warmer this year, and even last year was pretty warm Oct 2021: Avg: 8.5°C Min: 0.5°C Max: 22.0°C Oct 2022: Avg: 12.7°C Min: 4.9°C M…

So interestingly, we will see a massive decrease in energy usage from heating thanks for climate change. Actually pretty cool.

Re: An unconfirmed tweet about Freeport LNG is upending gas markets

#160

Post by mytailorisrich »

Y-bar wrote: post #153
mytailorisrich wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Winter' in calendar, solar terms in the Northern hemisphere , also called astronomical winter, starts on 21st December and ends on 20th March (there might be a one day shift now and then?). That is, the period from the winter solstice until the spring equinoxe. This is written on most calendars and that is what Google tells you when you look up 'winter'. I am flabbergasted that you never heard of that... Now, usuall…

Funnily enough we call that first day date “Midwinter Day” or “middle of the winter-day” here. Maybe it it time to rename it to “Firstwinter Day”! ;)

Yes that's a customary name for the winter solstice. Like Midsummer for the summer solstice.

As I wrote, in European tradition 'winter' starts much earlier than the winter solstice because quite obviously the cold and grey months start earlier.

I am still puzzled that you never heard of 21st December being the beginning of the (astronomical) winter, like 21st June is beginning of summer, etc.

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