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FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

reuters.com

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Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#491

Post by thwayunion »

Julesman wrote: post #463

I'm not a luddite (on hacker news lol) and I can clearly see the revolutionary potential of blockchain. But, for the love of God, can we STOP the blind short-term speculation on the promise of extreme wealth. Moderate investment can support development without the kind of hype that ruins lives and sullies public perception of the technology.

> can we STOP the blind short-term speculation on the promise of extreme wealth

I first played around with blockchain in 2011 or so and I still don't know what actual utility this technology is supposed to have. I have never -- never -- encountered a value-producing use case for cryptocurrency that can't be solved by either signed git commits or a SQL database.

Around 2015 a lot of people I thought were smart enough were exploring use cases for blockchain. AFAICT everyone in that space either left the space altogether, is still rambling about solving supply chain fraud (...), or pivoted to shovel salesmanship to support speculators (or speculate themselves).

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#492

Post by nu11ptr »

Hippocrates wrote: post #486
bmitc wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thoughts are that FTX was maybe a legitimate business, but then Alameda was his trading baby that just happened to be run by kids, including himself, that have no idea what they're doing and was losing money left and right. Then using FTX customer funds was viewed as just a "let's move these funds over to get our trading back on track and when we do, we'll move them back". That's my honest guess if I'm being gener…

That’s my guess too but the size of the hole (8bn+) makes it hard to imagine it could all be lost in trading, either in a big bang, or gradually for years.

As I understand it, their primary "trade" was to buy and hold FTT. Suddenly FTT's value went "poof" and the rest is is history.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#493

Post by bmitc »

shockeychap wrote: post #263
triceratops wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than resigning, what more responsibility can someone take for a professional failure?

In this case, jail. He openly talked about how the whole thing was a Ponzi scheme. https://youtu.be/KZYqL79GDXU?t=1277

His analogy of a "box" and "cool things" happening to that is almost comical.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#494

Post by monkmartinez »

Julesman wrote: post #463

I'm not a luddite (on hacker news lol) and I can clearly see the revolutionary potential of blockchain. But, for the love of God, can we STOP the blind short-term speculation on the promise of extreme wealth. Moderate investment can support development without the kind of hype that ruins lives and sullies public perception of the technology.

what do you see as the "revolutionary potential" in blockchain? Genuinely curious.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#495

Post by theideaofcoffee »

rhino369 wrote: post #387
theideaofcoffee wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think this is an interesting question. Coming from a lay person I'd imagine it would remain with that name until the contract is up for renewal. Depending on how the naming deal was structured, the money to do the deal would probably have come from FTX' marketing budget in a lump sum up front (presumably) for a fixed number of years. When that's done, the arena will find another source of funds and give the ri…

>Coming from a lay person I'd imagine it would remain with that name until the contract is up for renewal. As a lawyer, not a transactional lawyer so this is pretty far outside my expertise, I'd imagine they'd include some provisions for this type of scenario in the agreement. Even if it didn't, the stadiums owners would probably offer FTX some sort of partial refund to give up the naming rights, which they would hav…

Thank you for those points!

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#496

Post by nwah1 »

nu11ptr wrote: post #488
louwrentius wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess I’m a Luddite as I only see blockchain tech as a solution in search of a problem. I think it’s worse than useless and crime isn’t a valid use case.

Separation of money and state is definitely a worthwhile goal in my opinion. Everything else is more questionable.

The state has a monopoly on the use of force. It can tax, expropriate, conscript, regulate, and otherwise redirect resources however it wants, and it can demand payments in any currency it chooses. The wishful thinking involved in trying to "separate" money and states is absurd. Even under a gold standard, the government can acquire resources from the public at will. The entire goal is nonsense. The root desire there is the urge to not have a government, which is just yet more wishful thinking.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#497

Post by nu11ptr »

dottrap wrote: post #482
Alupis wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone that only dabbles in crypto - what are the reasons people choose to use high-risk exchanges like FTX, and buy even higher risk "sh*t coins" on them? Especially the exchange-created-and-owned coins - of which I have yet to see one actually do what it promised. Is Coinbase just not cool anymore, or is there some advantage to using exchanges like FTX until they go belly-up?

- FTX had much bigger trading volume (which might get people better fills) - FTX had lower fees than Coinbase - FTX offered a lot more coins to trade than Coinbase - FTX (like many others, but not so much Coinbase) were giving large sign up bonuses, and advertising like crazy. (Finance YouTubers like Graham Stephan, Meet Kevin, Jeremy Financial Education, Minority Mindset, etc. are taking some heat for their paid pro…

FTX's UI was way faster and better. I will miss that. Coinbase UI is very laggy, slow, and even more of a memory hog.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#498

Post by brianbreslin »

nu11ptr wrote: post #492
Hippocrates wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s my guess too but the size of the hole (8bn+) makes it hard to imagine it could all be lost in trading, either in a big bang, or gradually for years.

As I understand it, their primary "trade" was to buy and hold FTT. Suddenly FTT's value went "poof" and the rest is is history.

I think that would only explain $4B or so, they said their hole was $10B. Or do we think the FTT leverage multiplied the exposure?

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#499

Post by sdiacom »

Julesman wrote: post #463

I'm not a luddite (on hacker news lol) and I can clearly see the revolutionary potential of blockchain. But, for the love of God, can we STOP the blind short-term speculation on the promise of extreme wealth. Moderate investment can support development without the kind of hype that ruins lives and sullies public perception of the technology.

As someone with a similar-ish position to yours, I think by the time someone figures out how to build something useful with this technology, the terminology of cryptocurrencies (blockchain, "defi", NFTs and whatever a "web3" is) will be so tightly associated with scams, that this new useful thing will use completely different terms to describe itself.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#500

Post by paxys »

pbreit wrote: post #472
paxys wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two possible outcomes: - They miss their next payment and the contract is terminated. The arena owners find a new sponsor. - The naming rights are considered an asset of FTX and are sold off during bankruptcy proceedings to recover cash. The buyer puts their own name on the arena for the rest of the contract term. Considering naming rights are sold for such lengthy terms (20 years in FTX's case) it is incredibly comm…

Both of those are unlikely. The whole point of bankruptcy is to mitigate things like contract terminations. Further, the bankruptcy court will have little, if any involvement in the eventual sale of the naming rights to a new sponsor.

> The whole point of bankruptcy is to mitigate things like contract terminations

Except in this case both parties involved will want the contract to be terminated.

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