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FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

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Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#481
post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone that only dabbles in crypto - what are the reasons people choose to use high-risk exchanges like FTX, and buy even higher risk "sh*t coins" on them? Especially the exchange-created-and-owned coins - of which I have yet to see one actually do what it promised. Is Coinbase just not cool anymore, or is there some advantage to using exchanges like FTX until they go belly-up?

> high-risk exchanges like FTX Larry David + Steph Curry "endorsed" television commercials?

Technically speaking Larry David was discouraging people from using FTX.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#482
post #422
post #87

I've seen some comments saying that this is all delayed fallout from the Luna/Terra collapse last spring, it's just that FTX had the means (its own token that it could pump and move around its own entities) to paper over the hole in its balance sheet until now. Can anyone more familiar with the situation elaborate? How much further will the contagion spread?

For someone that only dabbles in crypto - what are the reasons people choose to use high-risk exchanges like FTX, and buy even higher risk "sh*t coins" on them? Especially the exchange-created-and-owned coins - of which I have yet to see one actually do what it promised. Is Coinbase just not cool anymore, or is there some advantage to using exchanges like FTX until they go belly-up?

- FTX had much bigger trading volume (which might get people better fills)

- FTX had lower fees than Coinbase

- FTX offered a lot more coins to trade than Coinbase

- FTX (like many others, but not so much Coinbase) were giving large sign up bonuses, and advertising like crazy. (Finance YouTubers like Graham Stephan, Meet Kevin, Jeremy Financial Education, Minority Mindset, etc. are taking some heat for their paid promotions they did for FTX.)

- FTX offered options on some cryptos, like Bitcoin. This seems to be kind of rare.

- FTX offered leverage (like most of the other big exchanges, but not Coinbase)

- Since FTX also set up a separate FTX.US entity, it gave the perception that it had all the same US regulation protections as Coinbase. And since FTX was much bigger than Coinbase, it gave the perception that FTX was more likely to be more solvent than Coinbase. A month ago, I suspect if you asked most crypto people which exchange was more likely to go under first, they would have all said Coinbase.

This whole industry looks very unhealthy. The large exchanges that most people use like Binance and FTX have books and operations shrouded in mystery, so nobody really knows how solvent any of these things were. FTX said they were not lending out coins (and by law, as an exchange, they are supposed to have all assets), but only after a leak revealed by Coindesk, did the public find out something was really wrong. Without that leak, FTX would still be doing business as usual.

Meanwhile, Coinbase which is a publicly traded company in the US which is many magnitudes more transparent with their books (because they are required to be), can't seem to make a profit.

The overall implication is that regular exchanges that just make money from fees are in an unsustainable business model. And all the other exchanges that are making a profit, might be doing all the shady things that FTX was caught doing.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scoopy in the Alchemix discord had this to say: "If you are on any CEX or CeFi app or earn product, get out RIGHT NOW. Rumors are swirling and it is possible that none of them are solvent. I am not kidding, really, get out now. I care too much for our community to not have said anything to warn you." Not sure what that all entails.

Always take financial decisions based on anons in random discords.

To be fair, a lot of people probably got into this situation on an equivalent recommendation.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#484
post #310
post #87

I've seen some comments saying that this is all delayed fallout from the Luna/Terra collapse last spring, it's just that FTX had the means (its own token that it could pump and move around its own entities) to paper over the hole in its balance sheet until now. Can anyone more familiar with the situation elaborate? How much further will the contagion spread?

How much further? By their own figures, Tether is now undercapitalized and just had billions withdrawn. They made those payments. But, as Hemmingway said, bankruptcy tends to happen gradually and then all at once. Tether is in a hole. Nobody knows how close they are to not making payments. But when they implode, it will be sudden and the blast radius will be large. Does Tether weather this squall? Based on history, p…

[deleted]

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#485
post #474
post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Coinbase doesn't offer the leverage that offshore exchanges do. FTX was popular originally because they offered 100x leverage Sounds like a red alarm for me. There's probably a good reason domestic exchanges don't let you extend out that far... particularly on extremely volatile securities.

That kind of gets into philosophy of what governments are for: should they protect people who make bad decisions from themselves? Does the answer change if people are actively marketing the bad decision? Does the attempt at doing so suggest they're actively trying to keep poor people from getting rich? (This comment is an explanation of a viewpoint, and not an endorsement.)

I see it as the government should get out of the way of those who know what they are doing and the risks.

The problem is, these exchanges do not make you go through the same "vetting" processes traditional securities brokers/exchanges do before you can leverage up to your eye balls and lose everything.

They also go out of their way to make it "fun" to trade crypto - gamification at it's best - which reduces/removes the traditional apprehension of getting in way above your abilities.

We can liken a lot of these exchanges to gambling more than investing.

That is to say, an 18 year old with $500 in total assets shouldn't be eligible to leverage 20x or more. That's just a life-changing problem waiting to happen.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#486
post #458

Can anyone speculate what Bankman-Fried's exit plan was? Was this a fraud that got out of control, or premeditated? If it was premeditated, what was the exit plan? Did he expect to be able to gamble with customer funds indefinitely? Were the Effective Altruism intimations genuine? Why, if Alameda was a market maker, and they therefore presumably have some form of insight into the markets, did they then decide to take…

My thoughts are that FTX was maybe a legitimate business, but then Alameda was his trading baby that just happened to be run by kids, including himself, that have no idea what they're doing and was losing money left and right. Then using FTX customer funds was viewed as just a "let's move these funds over to get our trading back on track and when we do, we'll move them back". That's my honest guess if I'm being gener…

That’s my guess too but the size of the hole (8bn+) makes it hard to imagine it could all be lost in trading, either in a big bang, or gradually for years.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#488

I'm not a luddite (on hacker news lol) and I can clearly see the revolutionary potential of blockchain. But, for the love of God, can we STOP the blind short-term speculation on the promise of extreme wealth. Moderate investment can support development without the kind of hype that ruins lives and sullies public perception of the technology.

Guess I’m a Luddite as I only see blockchain tech as a solution in search of a problem. I think it’s worse than useless and crime isn’t a valid use case.

Separation of money and state is definitely a worthwhile goal in my opinion. Everything else is more questionable.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#489

I'm one of customers that have money on FTX international which I cannot withdraw. (yup i know. bad decisions etc, but i knew the risk). Do you guys know, what will happen with the funds? Will I as a customer get any of my money back? (do you know if I'm a secured creditor?)

MTGOX blew up in Feb 28, 2014. I had ~100BTC there. I've yet to receive a dime. Just as a point of reference.

Re: FTX to file for U.S. bankruptcy, CEO resigns

#490

I'm not a luddite (on hacker news lol) and I can clearly see the revolutionary potential of blockchain. But, for the love of God, can we STOP the blind short-term speculation on the promise of extreme wealth. Moderate investment can support development without the kind of hype that ruins lives and sullies public perception of the technology.

Guess I’m a Luddite as I only see blockchain tech as a solution in search of a problem. I think it’s worse than useless and crime isn’t a valid use case.

Calling out useless "tech" for being useless doesn't make you a luddite. If you call out a "free energy" machine for not actually making free energy, that just makes you honest and reasonable.
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