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Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

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Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#81

Post by hulitu »

adrian_b wrote: post #50
mritun wrote: post #10

Yes they do, mainly because it’s the law. That it’s a misguided law is open for debate, but I don’t believe there is any state in the world that doesn’t monitor and control tele-communications (internet is regulated as tele-communications WW).

Yet there was a time, not long ago, when many countries had written in their constitutions, among the fundamental rights of their citizens, the rights of secrecy for both their written correspondence and their telephone conversations. Such rights were included even in the constitutions of many communist countries, despite the fact that there it was a routine activity for the secret police to open all suspect private…

> Unfortunately, now almost everywhere such rights have been weakened or completely eliminated, without any good justification and without the opposition that such changes deserved.

What do you mean "without any good justification" ? It is for your own good to protect you from terrorists (the bad ones specifically), hate speech (anything which is against the official narative) and child porn. /s

Why would change deserve opposition when it is for your own good and the change is in better [1] ? /s

[1] See Monty Python's Life of Brian - Ex-lepper scene.

Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#82

Post by staringback »

ljlolel wrote: post #74
staringback wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Each citizen can then be assigned an unique IP address You don't understand how IPv6 works.

You would want to use NAT with ipv6 if you want to hide somewhat your traffic— say at university as one example. Couldn’t reply to other comment

No you wouldn't. You would use temporary privacy addresses in your SLAAC prefix (this is the default for a few operating systems)

Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#83

Post by hulitu »

ozim wrote: post #52
Sakos wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not at all. Still worth reporting and talking about. It's not okay if the US or India or any other country does it. I'm not happy that most comments here are so resigned, "well, yeah, everybody does it".

Worth talking because there are still people who argue that TLS and HTTPS is hassle that is not needed.

You do realize that they are talking about "https" and "tls" trafic , do you ? The only use i see for those protocols is to identify you.

Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#84

Post by hulitu »

nisegami wrote: post #29
mdp2021 wrote: post #3

An important point is whether legislation exists which allows such "monitoring". Edit: I would also like to add, one of the latest news was about malicious access of administrative data in Australia - which surely has in general more funds to invest in security than others. I would be concerned about personal data being copied in more repositories (multiplying chances of malicious access).

>An important point is whether legislation exists which allows such "monitoring". One thing that people from the "global north" need to remember is that in most of the world, laws are just loose guidelines.

It is the same in the "global north". See Assange Swedish cases.

Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#85

Post by kitchi »

hunglee2 wrote: post #69
ruminator1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is violating someone's privacy caring for them? "Forfeit your rights so your rights can be protected"

the use case most commonly cited by government(s) is national security. for example, the government might suspect a citizen to be an agent of the CCP. Would you defend that individuals right to privacy, vs the nations right to security?

So rather than blanket surveillance, wouldn't it make more sense for the government to build a case against a suspect, and then issue a warrant to track their behaviour etc?

Unless the assumption is that all citizens of a country are potentially enemies of the state and we are all highly trained spies operating under deep cover for years...

Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#86

Post by stevewatson301 »

staringback wrote: post #66
stevewatson301 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NATing IPv4 traffic requires maintaining a 5-tuple of connection state[1], which means the ISP must log these 5-tuples to be able to track citizens individually. Further, if there's another layer of NAT (such as a free WiFi service in an airport or a WiFi router in a citizen's home), cooperation is needed at that NAT layer too. IPv6 obviates the need to maintain these 5-tuples since it has a larger IP address space.…

> Each citizen can then be assigned an unique IP address You don't understand how IPv6 works.

The feedback is fair enough given my phrasing. Of course, IPv6 can't give you a fixed IP address everywhere you go; because that's determined by network topology and IP assignment.

All I'm saying is that there's better segregation of the traffic from each IP resulting in easier analysis without the cooperation of NATing layers.

Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#87

Post by praveen9920 »

rand0mx1 wrote: post #35
praveen9920 wrote: post #31

This came as a surprise to me considering when the Indian court orders to take down particular content of particular site, ISPs still uses dns blocking instead of more granular blocking which resulted in blanket site blockings of popular sites

Most Indian ISPs employ Deep-packet Inspection to block websites

Not all of them have the capabilities of course

Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#88

Post by somenameforme »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #77
roody15 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you honestly believe the US government doesn't have the same access to cloudflare data within the states?

> the US government doesn't have the same access to cloudflare data within the states? Yes. There is almost certainly access. But it’s partial and adversarial, not automatic as in India.

PRISM [1] didn't end when the media stopped reporting on it. If anything it's likely only become more emboldened given people's tepid response. This [2] is one of my favorite documents that was leaked. It's a user manual, "User's Guide For PRISM Skype Collection", for NSA agents spying on Skype "peer to peer" connections in real time.

It even includes a helpful FAQ like agents wondering why they might receive copies of the same message multiple times. What happens there is when somebody they're spying on logs in via another device, their resync process involves everything being sent right on over directly, automatically, and in real time to the NSA again. They can even spy on video/audio in real time, with some promises to agents frustrated about audio falling out of sync with video - that they were working on a technical solution.

The companies at the time participating in PRISM were Apple, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and others. That's undoubtedly been long since expanded.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM

[2] - https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/Guid...

Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#89

Post by triceratops »

0x445442 wrote: post #71
mritun wrote: post #10

Yes they do, mainly because it’s the law. That it’s a misguided law is open for debate, but I don’t believe there is any state in the world that doesn’t monitor and control tele-communications (internet is regulated as tele-communications WW).

I’ve wondered about this for a while now with all the social media banning. The FCC requires one to have a license to broadcast over the airwaves and from what I understand these regulations stem from a limited number of frequencies. But I wonder if the FCC would have been created if that physical constraint did not exist. Was the FCC more about the constrained physics or controlled information?

Constrained physics.

The FCC doesn't regulate content on cable TV. Technologically, there's no reason cable radio couldn't have existed.

Re: Indian ISPs: We already give govt full access to web traffic

#90

Post by sremani »

Sakos wrote: post #43
lakomen wrote: post #23

Ok so how is it different from what the USA does?

Probably not at all. Still worth reporting and talking about. It's not okay if the US or India or any other country does it. I'm not happy that most comments here are so resigned, "well, yeah, everybody does it".

India is neither a 'Nation of creed' like US or a National-Security state like Russia or Pakistan. It is a nation of insurgencies though, so look elsewhere if Privacy to holy to you, cause it ain't going to be India's forte.
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