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Just don’t

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Re: Just don’t

#451

Post by dinvlad »

mindcrime wrote: post #136
photochemsyn wrote: post #114

For the case of helping someone with a technical problem, as author notes. words like 'simply', 'merely, 'just' are downplaying the person's efforts and inherently cause unnecessary strife, discouragement, resentment, etc. Sometimes, letting them work through it for a while longer on their own is the better course. In the situation where help is clearly needed, 'let's consider possible solutions' is a better entry po…

In the situation where help is clearly needed, 'let's consider possible solutions' is a better entry point, along with 'let's ensure we don't make it worse' - i.e. take a snapshot of the current situation, store the current working file, etc. Meh. Just goes to show how communication is a very subjective and personal thing. To my ears, both of those phrases would sound extremely condescending and patronizing. If I wer…

This. I’ve done the same mistake with a person who, due to their condition could not possibly _recognize_ there’s a problem.

To anyone who doesn’t relate to this - imagine being a perfectly “normal” human being (if there’s even such a thing) and someone walking up to you and saying straight up that you have a problem and need help and here’s the advice etc. The perfectly rational reaction to that would be the opposite of the intention.

On top of that, there’s always room for ourselves to be wrong and the person receiving the advice be right in their circumstance, so forcing our opinion on them just shows our own ignorance and inability to consider other points of view.

Re: Just don’t

#452

Post by Dylan16807 »

PeterisP wrote: post #422
imgabe wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m also a little put off by this article, but in all those examples you could remove the word just and still have the same meaning. It’s not really adding anything.

The way I read it, the parent post does add extra meaning with that word "just", that meaning being "if you don't know how to do X, this is not considered acceptable here", going beyond just the particular problem to the 'meta-level', asserting what the expectations are from people in this role.

Jesus. No.

Even when "just" is a problem, it's not... this.

Re: Just don’t

#453

Post by Dylan16807 »

paxys wrote: post #206
quelltext wrote: post #79

Not saying it's not good to learn about how "just" might be perceived or avoided but I am surprised this article is getting so much support. I feel like in the environment I'm in "just" never implied anything negative (e.g. lack of understanding on the receiver's part, making it seem like they should have considered ... but didn't, etc.), rather: - I don't yet understand why steps x, y, z are necessary. To me it woul…

Is it a surprise that people don't all work in the supportive environment that you have? Here's a more accurate example for me: "This feature will take about 3 weeks to ship." "Why so long? It's just a button that does stuff. Can't you just..." When the other side of the argument is a PM who can't describe what an HTTP call is, it's hard to look at it as a good faith discussion.

Your hypothetical conversation is not improved very much by removing the word "just".

Re: Just don’t

#454

Post by Dylan16807 »

imknewhere wrote: post #322
coldpie wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those personality differences that I find utterly fascinating. I think you're right that most people feel the way you say, but I feel the exact opposite! If I'm talking about a problem, it's because I haven't figured out how to solve it and would be happy for ideas. Otherwise why talk about it? You're certainly not interested in my problems, and it's by definition a problem for me, so it's not like I e…

For real? Like if in the course of a conversation, somebody brings up that they've been struggling with depression and have a hard time getting up in the morning, you actually interpret that as a request for instructions they can follow, in order to become happy again? I just find that a little hard to believe. If it's actually true, well, I dunno, I'm sorry for you?

Well, it's probably a desire for those things. The problem is that the solution doesn't exist, not that giving a valid solution would be bad.

Re: Just don’t

#455

Post by Dylan16807 »

gjvc wrote: post #35

Interesting how single words can have such an impact. I find it jarring to hear someone begin a sentence with "So", as if they have given the current topic some thought (when 9 times out of 10 they haven't), or to hear them end a statement with ", no?" where turning a positive assertion into a question sounds somewhat underhand.

Where did you get the idea that "So" implies that? I feel like one of us is significantly wrong here but I don't know if it's you or me.

And a sentence with ", no?" is still an assertion that you think it's right.

Re: Just don’t

#456

Post by Dylan16807 »

jkingsbery wrote: post #92

You know what else doesn't help? That obnoxious thing where each word in a sentence gets a period after it. I'm pretty sure that doesn't help either. Just write out sentences with the period at the end so you don't sound condescending.

Sometimes you want to be condescending. Alternatively, sometimes a persuasive piece will use different language than you should ever use to an average coworker.

Re: Just don’t

#457

Post by gjvc »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #455
gjvc wrote: post #35

Interesting how single words can have such an impact. I find it jarring to hear someone begin a sentence with "So", as if they have given the current topic some thought (when 9 times out of 10 they haven't), or to hear them end a statement with ", no?" where turning a positive assertion into a question sounds somewhat underhand.

Where did you get the idea that "So" implies that? I feel like one of us is significantly wrong here but I don't know if it's you or me. And a sentence with ", no?" is still an assertion that you think it's right.

neither is "significantly wrong" -- it's just an opinon.

Re: Just don’t

#458

Post by Dylan16807 »

gjvc wrote: post #457
Dylan16807 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did you get the idea that "So" implies that? I feel like one of us is significantly wrong here but I don't know if it's you or me. And a sentence with ", no?" is still an assertion that you think it's right.

neither is "significantly wrong" -- it's just an opinon.

Opinions about the definitions of words can be wrong.

Re: Just don’t

#459

Post by intull »

adenozine wrote: post #418
kstenerud wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about "say this and you'll break someone forever." It's about getting the best out of those you manage by engendering trust and respect. When you diminish someone's work or efforts (by any means; not simply by using the word "just"), you demonstrate to them that they can't confide in you, and should hide things from you whenever they can. As these events build up into a regular pattern, people learn that the…

It’s an assumption that you’ve made on your own. I have been to over twenty weddings across my career, all from people I’ve shared a workplace with. I’ve bought baby shower gifts, I’ve been to graduations, birthdays, divorce hearings, rehab graduation, and more. I’d take a bullet for half the people in my contact list. Work is work. You’re either there to work, or you go somewhere else. You think because you take a s…

> “Just” is a signal of simplicity.

You are missing a point overall I think - “just” signals simplicity, but it also signals dismissal of the difficulty the other person (receiver of “just”) is having. In that situation, to ask them to “just do it” will not help close the gap on why you think it’s simple and the other person has difficulty.

Because of your dismissal, they would not ask you again about it and could be apprehensive of exploring and closing that gap further themselves, especially when the “just” statement is made in a more public setting (eg. team meeting).

Whenever someone uses “just” as a way to signal simplicity and the other person does not concur, there exists a gap. The more someone dismisses another person’s difficulties, the bigger that gap. “Just” statements offer a solution which can help make progress. But who’s helping address that gap and how? Food for thought.

Re: Just don’t

#460

Post by gjvc »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #458
gjvc wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

neither is "significantly wrong" -- it's just an opinon.

Opinions about the definitions of words can be wrong.

And a sentence with ", no?" is still an assertion that you think it's right.

Not rising to this bait.

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