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My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

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Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#211

Post by fleddr »

tibbon wrote: post #189
fleddr wrote: post #178

This Mick Gordon guy has to be the most patient, understanding and abuse-tolerant person on the planet. Even after getting screwed over 30 times in a row he still was hopeful for a reasonable ending. I express that as a compliment, even if in the real world it works against you. It's not the main topic, but I like to call out attention to this: "incidences of online abuse escalated at an alarming rate as Marty’s Redd…

I also really wonder WTF is wrong with people. Even children should know to not harass someone for any reason, let alone that perhaps that person had conflict while working on a game they enjoy. I cannot imagine ever going after someone like that, under any circumstance.

You know what the most disturbing thing is? "Normal" people do this.

We're picturing villains, hateful characters, people with severe mental shortcomings. Deeply traumatized personalities looking for some retaliation.

Nope. It's your neighbor. That kind middle-aged guy walking his dog. The one that is considerate and intelligent enough to know better.

Several years back a dutch TV show proved this point. They did detective work to track down people making online death threats and confronted them at their door. Every single episode ended in the same anti-climax: completely "normal" people.

When pressed for an answer as to why they launched these threats...none could give a meaningful answer. They didn't even actually care about the matter at all.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#212

Post by fleddr »

rjbwork wrote: post #210
tibbon wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also really wonder WTF is wrong with people. Even children should know to not harass someone for any reason, let alone that perhaps that person had conflict while working on a game they enjoy. I cannot imagine ever going after someone like that, under any circumstance.

I think it's the same phenomenon that causes road rage. Collective pseudo-anonymity (and on the internet, literally pseudonymity) causes people to act in bizarre ways. The other people who are interacting with them via that mediated interface (internet, cars on road, phone, etc.) are at some level dehumanized. Very few people would do the kinds of things they do behind the screen or wheel of a car when sitting face t…

True, empathy is a function of distance.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#213

Post by Geee »

fluoridation wrote: post #138
gausswho wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember bouncing off DOOM Eternal after a couple hours because all its clever new mechanics were oddly anti-fun and puzzly resource management. Like the creators didn't know what made the predecessor special. I was confused and stopped playing a couple hours in. So I watched the Noclip hoping to understand the design choices better. Marty was disgustingly smug and assured about it all, coming across like a victim…

I bought the 2016 release at full price like within the first month of its release and decided to skip Eternal when I heard several reviews mention you had to ration ammo. Few things annoy me more than shooters that don't let you shoot as much as you want. Hell, every time I replay DOOM 2016 the first thing I upgrade is ammo all the way, and only then do I even consider upgrading health or armor.

I never played 2016, but ammo in Eternal is pretty much similar to any older Doom games, except that you also get ammo by using chainsaw on enemies. I think this made the game excellent, because it forces you to get close to enemies and use different types of attacks. There's lots of ammo if you know how to play it. The game always spawns these 'fodder' type enemies which can be used to get ammo, so you'll never run out.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#214

Post by valdiorn »

fleddr wrote: post #178

This Mick Gordon guy has to be the most patient, understanding and abuse-tolerant person on the planet. Even after getting screwed over 30 times in a row he still was hopeful for a reasonable ending. I express that as a compliment, even if in the real world it works against you. It's not the main topic, but I like to call out attention to this: "incidences of online abuse escalated at an alarming rate as Marty’s Redd…

> We're talking about a disappointing audio track for a stupid game

Uh, the Doom eternal soundtrack is widely regarded as one of the absolute best game soundtracks ever created.

I've not actually read this whole thing (am about to), neither was I aware of this whole mess, but I'm a massive fan of Mick and the Doom soundtracks. They have hundreds of millions of streams on YouTube in total.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#215

Post by five82 »

filoleg wrote: post #157
randomNumber7 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But John Carmack is such a great programmer. How can these people be assholes? /s

John Carmack had no hand in DOOM (2016), and was out of iD Software for quite a while by that point, so I have no idea why you felt the need to bring him up.

id Software has a long history of dysfunctional management that goes back to its inception. It’s probably not fair to single out John Carmack but there was plenty of backstabbing. All four founders left the company on bad terms.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#216

Post by fknorangesite »

fleddr wrote: post #178

This Mick Gordon guy has to be the most patient, understanding and abuse-tolerant person on the planet. Even after getting screwed over 30 times in a row he still was hopeful for a reasonable ending. I express that as a compliment, even if in the real world it works against you. It's not the main topic, but I like to call out attention to this: "incidences of online abuse escalated at an alarming rate as Marty’s Redd…

> used to consider trolling a "fact of life", nothing requiring intervention. I no longer believe that. ... the man and his family have to fear for their lives.

I'm wondering how you could be on the internet in a post-gamergate world and still be surprised that shit like this really does happen. It's incredibly common - why do you think those calls for stricter moderation started in the first place?

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#217

Post by fluoridation »

Geee wrote: post #213
fluoridation wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought the 2016 release at full price like within the first month of its release and decided to skip Eternal when I heard several reviews mention you had to ration ammo. Few things annoy me more than shooters that don't let you shoot as much as you want. Hell, every time I replay DOOM 2016 the first thing I upgrade is ammo all the way, and only then do I even consider upgrading health or armor.

I never played 2016, but ammo in Eternal is pretty much similar to any older Doom games, except that you also get ammo by using chainsaw on enemies. I think this made the game excellent, because it forces you to get close to enemies and use different types of attacks. There's lots of ammo if you know how to play it. The game always spawns these 'fodder' type enemies which can be used to get ammo, so you'll never run…

I don't know, I didn't play Doom back in the day, but I did play other '90s shooters and as a general rule none of them were resource management games. The difficulty usually arises from multitasking, reflexes, and precision. They're designed so that if you use your entire arsenal situationally you'll never run dry unless you have really poor aim. The resource you do have to manage, although indirectly, is your health, because in each level you can only recharge so much before death is inevitable. DUKE3D was an exception, where on most level it would let you recharge completely at the cost of standing in one place just holding down the use key continuously for one or two minutes.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#218

Post by 6thsurvivor »

filoleg wrote: post #157
randomNumber7 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But John Carmack is such a great programmer. How can these people be assholes? /s

John Carmack had no hand in DOOM (2016), and was out of iD Software for quite a while by that point, so I have no idea why you felt the need to bring him up.

He had, he worked on the level editor: https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/610468397554499584

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#219

Post by fleddr »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #192
fleddr wrote: post #178

This Mick Gordon guy has to be the most patient, understanding and abuse-tolerant person on the planet. Even after getting screwed over 30 times in a row he still was hopeful for a reasonable ending. I express that as a compliment, even if in the real world it works against you. It's not the main topic, but I like to call out attention to this: "incidences of online abuse escalated at an alarming rate as Marty’s Redd…

> I'm strongly against authoritarian overreach and used to consider trolling a "fact of life", nothing requiring intervention. I no longer believe that. We're talking about a disappointing audio track for a stupid game yet the man and his family have to fear for their lives. This is hardly the first incident like this and not even close to the worst. Remember when Reddit decided they knew who the Boston Marathon bomb…

Well, AnIdiotOnTheNet, perhaps you could be more of a role model yourself by not making baseless assumptions.

I've been on the web since 1996 and am well aware of what people can do. Depravity I couldn't even imagine exists. So no, I didn't just learn that people do really bad stuff.

The reason I used the term "a fact of life" is because addressing this issue can come at an enormous cost to society. Nobody would want anonymity to be illegal or to have every word expressed monitored by some institute. That's the reason for my hesitation, not because I didn't know about several earlier examples of this type of harassment.

I find this specific example of a hate campaign very useful for it is pure. You can't say it was an accident (we had the wrong guy) nor is it clouded by politics: it's fine if it happens to my political opponents or it was in retaliation to them doing the same thing to our side. There's no provocation of any kind either.

The above bullshit excuses are often used to be relatively lax about this phenomenon. To look away, and to see them as rare incidents.

Whilst there's never an excuse, this one doesn't even have a bullshit excuse either. For me that's a tipping point in believing that legislation is needed.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#220

Post by fleddr »

valdiorn wrote: post #214
fleddr wrote: post #178

This Mick Gordon guy has to be the most patient, understanding and abuse-tolerant person on the planet. Even after getting screwed over 30 times in a row he still was hopeful for a reasonable ending. I express that as a compliment, even if in the real world it works against you. It's not the main topic, but I like to call out attention to this: "incidences of online abuse escalated at an alarming rate as Marty’s Redd…

> We're talking about a disappointing audio track for a stupid game Uh, the Doom eternal soundtrack is widely regarded as one of the absolute best game soundtracks ever created. I've not actually read this whole thing (am about to), neither was I aware of this whole mess, but I'm a massive fan of Mick and the Doom soundtracks. They have hundreds of millions of streams on YouTube in total.

Well, once you finish reading, you'll understand that the outcome of this project was in fact disappointing. Which was the entire reason for the hate campaign.
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