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My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

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Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#131

Post by fknorangesite »

agentwiggles wrote: post #118
musha68k wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The soundtrack for Eternal was the only thing that felt special about this sequel IMO. Doom 2016 was and is amazing though, instant classic including the congenial soundtrack. I’m even less excited about any further sequel now. Too bad John Carmack didn’t want to put up more with the business side of things. Zenimax are slowly becoming the worst of all the gravedigger big gaming companies.

I liked Eternal, I know that a lot of people felt the new mechanics were too much of a departure from 2016, and I'm sympathetic to that, but I had a hell of fun time beating the game on Nightmare. It turns it into something like Hotline Miami, where there's a room full of guys who can kill you almost immediately, so you wind up playing the encounter over and over until you have the perfect path of devastation through…

Totally agree. I didn't like Eternal at first, but then suddenly the combat loop just clicked and I couldn't get enough.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#132

Post by randomNumber7 »

x55j33 wrote: post #63
dspillett wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Horror stories like this are the main reason I only ever bill by the hour and invoice biweekly. This sort of thing is why I've always kept a salaried position. I could make more, perhaps have more varied & interesting work, and maybe gain other flexibility, if I switched to contracting, but few people extolling these benefits to me ever mention the flip side when things aren't perfect – I'm more than happy to make…

> Work starts late because of no fault of mine Yes, but apparently in Mick's case your name is on the product, and your reputation gets ruined if you don't play ball. A big software company can pay lawyers much longer than you can keep food on the table without pay.

Even good lawyers would have trouble bending the obvious. He had no contract to produce the OST (first) and he could have publicly claimed, that he only produced the game music and was not involved in that final mix of the OST.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#133

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

cragfar wrote: post #127

I don't do much contract work or deal with the video game industry at all, so I'm wondering was Mick just being overly understanding here about the payment issues? Someone refusing to pay me for work would instantly shut down any work I do with them. And my head nearly exploded when I read the part about how they secretly published a soundtrack that they didn't pay for, and then agreed to be pay for it only if he did…

Delayed or never received payments are common for video game freelancers. Most projects fail, and so the likelihood you don't get paid out for a portion of your work is very high. You just have to eat it and set your rates accordingly. iD/Zennimax are big enough there's no excuse here, but as far as mentality anyone that's been freelancing in games has probably crossed over into this territory of just hoping the client stops being an idiot at least once if they're honest.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#134

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

At the end of the day, this is a bog-standard contract dispute over creative differences, and now these guys have to hash it out in the court of public opinion, because some gamers didn't feel like the soundtrack was good enough for their money, and started making a stink? Good grief. "Social" media is killing society.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#135

Post by jasonwatkinspdx »

causality0 wrote: post #7

Out of curiosity, has there ever been a gag agreement that wasn't put forth by an absolute asshole to cover up their asshole behavior? Like are they ever used for good?

Non disparagement clauses are gonna be common in any settlement where the other party has the legal upper hand. A wrongful termination would be an example, where the settling party would want assurances the manager won't pull a Marty on reddit.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#136

Post by randomNumber7 »

somuchfordonor wrote: post #30
cyberpunk wrote: post #27

I had a real feeling Mick got the shaft over this one. A real shame, his OST would have been absolutely badass. What a waste of time for everyone involved, they certainly won't find anyone better for scoring the next ID games. I hope he lands on his feet, whatever he does next.

This forum is full of people with amnesia over how many id Tech people are assholes.

But John Carmack is such a great programmer. How can these people be assholes? /s

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#137

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #109
driverdan wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have told them to shove it. They had nothing to bring a lawsuit about.

I would never face off with a giant corporation over reddit modding. The best case scenario is their threat being total bluster and nothing happens, and even there you have to deal with their loud demands making it purely a negative experience for you.

If the Reddit TOS doesn't absolve mods from this sort of corporate abuse, they should work on that. They can't let outside pressures manipulate their site like that. Not, at least, if they're not getting paid. Then, of course, game on. But...

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#138

Post by fluoridation »

gausswho wrote: post #128
meanmrmustard92 wrote: post #106

Marty came across as a slimy prick in the (otherwise excellent) Noclip documentary about the making of Doom (2016). Turns out the real-life version is much worse.

I remember bouncing off DOOM Eternal after a couple hours because all its clever new mechanics were oddly anti-fun and puzzly resource management. Like the creators didn't know what made the predecessor special. I was confused and stopped playing a couple hours in. So I watched the Noclip hoping to understand the design choices better. Marty was disgustingly smug and assured about it all, coming across like a victim…

I bought the 2016 release at full price like within the first month of its release and decided to skip Eternal when I heard several reviews mention you had to ration ammo. Few things annoy me more than shooters that don't let you shoot as much as you want. Hell, every time I replay DOOM 2016 the first thing I upgrade is ammo all the way, and only then do I even consider upgrading health or armor.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#139

Post by another_devy »

nvarsj wrote: post #40

Truly insane. It's a shame Mick had to go public on this so hard, I feel it has undoubtedly hurt his professional career. But what Marty/id Software did here is completely unacceptable and absolutely disgusting. What a mess.

I don’t think he is going any hard in-fact all of his post is completely focused on his treatment. He could’ve exposed Marty’s/id’s treatment with others. I think he still is trying to avoid confrontation in court, maybe settle outside.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#140

Post by s_dev »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #134

At the end of the day, this is a bog-standard contract dispute over creative differences, and now these guys have to hash it out in the court of public opinion, because some gamers didn't feel like the soundtrack was good enough for their money, and started making a stink? Good grief. "Social" media is killing society.

>because some gamers didn't feel like the soundtrack was good enough for their money, and started making a stink?

I would compare Mick Gordon's contribution to the Doom game here to that of Howard Shore in Lord of the Rings. The experience is fundamentally limited without the music.

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