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My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

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Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#161

Post by mrob »

filoleg wrote: post #156
mrob wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the brickwall mastering was intentionally done by Mick Gordon. See the section starting at "id Software approved my mastering". The alleged "disregard for basic music fundamentals" appears to have introduced more dynamic range, although not in a way that's pleasant to listen to.

> It seems the brickwall mastering was intentionally done by Mick Gordon Where are you getting this? His in-game music was perfectly fine, and the only instances of brickwall mastering were present within the "official OST" (that was mixed by Chad, splicing together the in-game music poorly). Which Gordon had no hand in whatsoever, outside of providing the source material, i.e., the in-game music.

The edits described in the article have no mention of additional dynamic range compression. The music in the OST is described as "normalized" to 0dBFS, which means simply adjusting the gain. This suggests that the dynamic range was already compressed (which is not unreasonable for game audio, because it will make the sound effects easier to hear).

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#162

Post by bombcar »

brightball wrote: post #155
bombcar wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to find good legal representation you can trust and is knowledgeable about the industry/situation. It is very easy to find a lawyer who will take your money, however.

That's a very valid statement, but at the same time you have to be prepared for it if you plan to be a contractor anyway. You need your own agreements. You need somebody to review agreements presented to you. If there are IP concerns you need to have clear legal language present around that as well. To get there, it's worth it to network in attorney circles. It's well worth it.

Yeah, it absolutely surprises me the number of people who will work with custom contracts and don't even know the name of a lawyer.

It's one thing if you're signing the bog-standard real estate deal paperwork, it's another if you're doing custom contracts related to work.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#163

Post by Arjuna »

mrob wrote: post #122
Arjuna wrote: post #45

”The same thoughtless disregard for basic music fundamentals that plagued the preliminary edits ended up on the final OST.” As a musician and music-lover, seeing how they brickwalled [1][2] Mick’s tracks in the screenshots only serves to add to the heartbreak of his entire saga. [1] Loudness War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war [2] The Loudness War https://youtu.be/3Gmex_4hreQ

It seems the brickwall mastering was intentionally done by Mick Gordon. See the section starting at "id Software approved my mastering". The alleged "disregard for basic music fundamentals" appears to have introduced more dynamic range, although not in a way that's pleasant to listen to.

FTA:

”His edits are riddled with these clearly visible mistakes. Anyone comparing my original tracks to his edits can hear (and see, by looking at the waveform [1]) the unmistakable errors introduced during the editing process.”

[1] https://twitter.com/DoominalCross/status/1251690243389927424

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#164

Post by mjmsmith »

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #2

Horror stories like this are the main reason I only ever bill by the hour and invoice biweekly. Like, sure, I'll change things to meet requirements but I'm not going to work for free or go without pay for months. It's also much easier to fire bad clients or to stop working when an invoice goes unpaid for too long. The only downside to this approach is when salaried subordinates don't understand this dynamic and rack…

As an independent developer, I stop working as soon as more than once invoice is outstanding. Anything else is asking to be left holding the bag (or more of it than you already are.)

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#165

Post by remarkEon »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #130
agentwiggles wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I liked Eternal, I know that a lot of people felt the new mechanics were too much of a departure from 2016, and I'm sympathetic to that, but I had a hell of fun time beating the game on Nightmare. It turns it into something like Hotline Miami, where there's a room full of guys who can kill you almost immediately, so you wind up playing the encounter over and over until you have the perfect path of devastation through…

> It turns it into something like Hotline Miami, where there's a room full of guys who can kill you almost immediately, so you wind up playing the encounter over and over until you have the perfect path of devastation through the enemies. I call it Mario-ization, and I hate it. I also hated Eternal. It wasn't Doom. It was a "first-person jumper." Based on the previous game, I pre-ordered the deluxe whatever version,…

After finishing Gordon's essay, the jagged and at times uneven feel of DOOM Eternal seems to make a lot more sense now. This circular creative process (give me the music so we can design the level ... no, you give me the level design so I can write the music) seems to explain what felt so wrong about DOOM Eternal, this "fantasy platform puzzle" idea that Id was driving toward.

I feel the same way about pre-ordering AAA games, but FWIW I think pre-ordering is really context dependent. Pre-ordering the next DOOM? Hell no. Pre-ordering KSP2 or something like that? Yeah probably.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#166

Post by filoleg »

mrob wrote: post #161
filoleg wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems the brickwall mastering was intentionally done by Mick Gordon Where are you getting this? His in-game music was perfectly fine, and the only instances of brickwall mastering were present within the "official OST" (that was mixed by Chad, splicing together the in-game music poorly). Which Gordon had no hand in whatsoever, outside of providing the source material, i.e., the in-game music.

The edits described in the article have no mention of additional dynamic range compression. The music in the OST is described as "normalized" to 0dBFS, which means simply adjusting the gain. This suggests that the dynamic range was already compressed (which is not unreasonable for game audio, because it will make the sound effects easier to hear).

The edit described in Gordon's post talks about overlaying tracks with zero crossfading done and instruments clashing, all being done hastily by hand. That alone is a massive contributor to the dynamic range brickwall.

Gordon explicitly singled out those instances. He didnt say "the track as a whole has a DR brickwall through and through." He mentioned a complete lack of crossfading being the massive contributor to the brickwall and weird tempo changes, and it all checks out.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#167

Post by sasas »

The original post by Marty always crossed my mind when listening to the OST sound track. It never really added up. Mick always came across a person with integrity - both artistic and otherwise. Now my mind can be put at rest.

The behavior of Marty in the way it's described comes across classic narcissistic behaviors. Hopefully Mick has learned to recognize this early on in future engagements and to tread very carefully. This applies to all people in power in companies. Do not trust until that trust is earnt, no matter how friendly or forthcoming they appear.

I learnt this early in my career and can (hopefully) can spot these people quickly before they gain too much leverage. Give them nothing that can be used against you because there is a good chance it will come back to bite.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#168

Post by mrob »

Arjuna wrote: post #163
mrob wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the brickwall mastering was intentionally done by Mick Gordon. See the section starting at "id Software approved my mastering". The alleged "disregard for basic music fundamentals" appears to have introduced more dynamic range, although not in a way that's pleasant to listen to.

FTA: ”His edits are riddled with these clearly visible mistakes. Anyone comparing my original tracks to his edits can hear (and see, by looking at the waveform [1]) the unmistakable errors introduced during the editing process.” [1] https://twitter.com/DoominalCross/status/1251690243389927424

This is comparing Doom 2016 with Doom Eternal. It shows strange production in Doom Eternal that is very probably an error (overlapping without crossfade), but it provides no additional information as to why the Doom Eternal OST has low dynamic range.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#169

Post by mrob »

filoleg wrote: post #166
mrob wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The edits described in the article have no mention of additional dynamic range compression. The music in the OST is described as "normalized" to 0dBFS, which means simply adjusting the gain. This suggests that the dynamic range was already compressed (which is not unreasonable for game audio, because it will make the sound effects easier to hear).

The edit described in Gordon's post talks about overlaying tracks with zero crossfading done and instruments clashing, all being done hastily by hand. That alone is a massive contributor to the dynamic range brickwall. Gordon explicitly singled out those instances. He didnt say "the track as a whole has a DR brickwall through and through." He mentioned a complete lack of crossfading being the massive contributor to t…

Overlapping without crossfading is strange and very likely wrong, but it cannot contribute to brickwalling unless further dynamic range processing is applied, or unless it causes clipping, which is avoided by the described normalization. No further dynamic range processing is described in the article, and no evidence of such processing is visible in the screenshots.
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