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Just don’t

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Re: Just don’t

#441

Post by haberman »

redhale wrote: post #368
adenozine wrote: post #360

Alternatively, if you’re not fit for work, then don’t be at work? I mean, at what point is it over the line to be useless at a job you’ve agreed to do, and that you demonstrated competence for and interviewed for? Many times I’ve said things like “just restart the cronjob for this” or “just tag this issue to so-and-so if you can’t get it, they wrote the original” etc. I’m all for taking care of yourself, but if you c…

Just don't feel alienated by articles like these.

Your comment is being intentionally dismissive of the grandparent's post. The false inference is that everyone who uses the word "just" is intending to be dismissive.

That's what I don't like about articles like this. It tries to establish some kind of universal rule that questions like "Could you just cache the hot partition keys?" are automatically rude, without considering any context. Context matters. A person could ask that question in a well-meaning way, and it could even end up being a helpful suggestion! A person could also ask that question in a dismissive and arrogant way. It depends on the person and the relationship between the speaker and the listener. Intent matters.

Re: Just don’t

#442

Post by corobo »

hnfong wrote: post #440
corobo wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you ask "What have you tried so far?". I can't imagine that being taken weirdly.

In some situations could result in a 30 minute speech though.

That's unfortunate but if the user has done something that takes 30 minutes to explain it's probably worth listening.

Re: Just don’t

#443

Post by cwkoss »

dang wrote: post #384
cwkoss wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this something quippy, or do people actually believe this?

He was talking specifically about software projects—I forgot to mention that. He was pointing out how phrases like "that should take less than a week" or "let's just fix it this way" tend to mask problems and often indicate wishful thinking. Of course there's a quippy element, but if you pay attention to such language you'll find that these heuristics work a surprising amount of the time.

Interesting, yeah makes more sense when confined to software domain.

Re: Just don’t

#444

Post by unsupp0rted »

matwood wrote: post #346
actionablefiber wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go with "my first impulse is to suggest..." which IMO adds the diplomatic nuance of admitting an incomplete understanding of the problem and/or the person experiencing the problem. You either get a "good suggestion, I'll try that" as a response or you get "you might think it's a good idea but I already considered it and XYZ problems occurred" and you can work from there.

Same. "My first thought is...but I'm sure I don't understand all the nuances." Branching way off topic, and paraphrasing Sun Tsu here, but he says to always give your opponent an out unless you plan to completely destroy them. Very rarely in business do you want to or need to destroy someone so I try to soften my suggestions. The other mantra I repeat almost daily is 'do I want to be right or effective'. It feels gre…

I wish there were an actual masterclass on how to deal with people professionally.

A lot of ones I've seen is hand-wavey "be more empathetic" or "there are multiple intelligences" kind of advice.

I'd like to be able to listen in on conversations with challenging DO's and DON'Ts.

e.g. "Why do you think Rajesh reacted this way? What might James have said to elicit a more positive reaction, all other things being the same?"

Not so much intercultural communication as "here's how to give someone an out".

Re: Just don’t

#445

Post by unsupp0rted »

gwillen wrote: post #393
jcelerier wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the client needs me to do, I suspect without being able to confirm because my questions are “wasting their time”, is give the warehouse a place to pencil stuff in next to line items. have you thought that maybe this is not the reason at all why they want this ? maybe they have a scanner somewhere that works better with the landscape format ? some regulation to comply with ? I find it absolutely insufferable wh…

I keep meaning to write something about this, but: There are two kinds of "why". One is "I understand what you want but I think it's stupid so I'm going to argue with you." That one is insufferable. The other one is "I don't understand what you want, and I need more information to know what to do." That one is inevitable. Unfortunately the line between the two is very fuzzy, because every request is underspecified, a…

This one might be a third type:

"I understand what you want me to do, but why do you think you want me to do this, because I suspect it won't achieve your goals."

On second thought, this might be the first type you mentioned.

Re: Just don’t

#446

Post by unsupp0rted »

Max-q wrote: post #333
unsupp0rted wrote: post #7

I get a lot more mileage out of "have you tried..." than "why don't you just...". As a recent example, I wrote a system that auto-generates PDF packing slips from an order form, to send to a warehouse for picking and packing. Yesterday a client told me to "just make it landscape" while I was explaining why "just making it landscape" won't solve the problem of giving the warehouse whitespace to pencil stuff in, becaus…

Now I got really curious why just making it landscape wouldn’t solve the problem. It would give white space on the side regardless of which document format was used to print the page, wouldn’t it? Is it due to a different size of the printed label?

It's because the PDF is generated from HTML, and the table expands to take up the width of whatever container you give it, whether that's a portrait container or a landscape container.

Landscape just makes a wider table, with no more or less whitespace than portrait or than a billboard (proportionally, that is).

If the goal is to write line-item level notes in the table, then a "SKU Notes" column can be added and Landscape gives it more horizontal space to exist.

But the first step is to confirm that this is indeed the objective because "just make it landscape" wouldn't achieve anything on its own.

Re: Just don’t

#447

Post by TaylorAlexander »

hnfong wrote: post #440
corobo wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you ask "What have you tried so far?". I can't imagine that being taken weirdly.

In some situations could result in a 30 minute speech though.

That has got to be a very rare occurrence. Asking first is in my opinion the best advice. If in rare situations the person is giving a long winded or incoherent answer it should be okay to interrupt, but to avoid asking them what they tried on the off chance they are a poor communicator seems to me a bad tactic.

Re: Just don’t

#448

Post by Max-q »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #446
Max-q wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I got really curious why just making it landscape wouldn’t solve the problem. It would give white space on the side regardless of which document format was used to print the page, wouldn’t it? Is it due to a different size of the printed label?

It's because the PDF is generated from HTML, and the table expands to take up the width of whatever container you give it, whether that's a portrait container or a landscape container. Landscape just makes a wider table, with no more or less whitespace than portrait or than a billboard (proportionally, that is). If the goal is to write line-item level notes in the table, then a "SKU Notes" column can be added and Lan…

Thanks :)

Re: Just don’t

#449

Post by LeroyRaz »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #352
actionablefiber wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go with "my first impulse is to suggest..." which IMO adds the diplomatic nuance of admitting an incomplete understanding of the problem and/or the person experiencing the problem. You either get a "good suggestion, I'll try that" as a response or you get "you might think it's a good idea but I already considered it and XYZ problems occurred" and you can work from there.

Everyone here is looking for ways to make unsolicited suggestions in a diplomatic way. Even with extra language this can be irritating to reply to. I’ve learned to first ask if there is anything I can do to help, rather than immediately making suggestions. Often times people are doing just fine working through a problem, and may want to communicate the status without receiving advice on how to solve it. For interpers…

I appreciate unsolicited feedback. I don't know why people are so anti it...

Re: Just don’t

#450

Post by dinvlad »

LeroyRaz wrote: post #449
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone here is looking for ways to make unsolicited suggestions in a diplomatic way. Even with extra language this can be irritating to reply to. I’ve learned to first ask if there is anything I can do to help, rather than immediately making suggestions. Often times people are doing just fine working through a problem, and may want to communicate the status without receiving advice on how to solve it. For interpers…

I appreciate unsolicited feedback. I don't know why people are so anti it...

For a lot of folks, they either just want to be heard/understood, or they may not even recognize if there’s a problem (i.e. they have anosognosia). Imagine someone forcing their opinion when a person is at their most vulnerable, it’s most often perceived as just patronizing/dismissing their concerns, or as an outright attack. Active listening and developing trust first is key.
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