Live data from Hacker News

The real reason you can't hire developers....

news.ycombinator.com

61–70 of 271 posts

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#61
post #39

Specifically in response to the time gaps: it's true that time gaps are bad, but keep in mind these are startups, which means they're juggling about twenty thousand different things at the same time. I think in that domain in particular, some slack may be in order as compared to a 20,000-strong corporation with a dedicated HR department. Re: weird extra steps: the idea isn't that they're cool. The idea is that if you…

It's not the be-all end-all, but it seems like a decent first-pass filter. It is really not, I have been round and round about this with every organization that I have been in that does these. The only thing it displays is the persons ability to answer trivia and solve puzzles. These are not the characteristics of a great developer, the characteristics of a great developer are simplicity, creativity and rapidly adapt…

Good to hear the input, actually. I haven't personally used the puzzle, I was just saying it seemed like a decent filter. Obviously I was wrong in my perception :)

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#62
post #47

For what it's worth, I'm involved in the hiring process at chartboost.com. (Company tripled in employee size the past couple months!) When we get a resume / inquiry from somebody who wants to work remotely, it's instant rejection. Telecommuting is a long debate whose scope is outside of this discussion, but for a lot of companies that's a tough sell. Especially at 115k.

Sorry to hear that, I once read a quote that said hiring is about getting the best person available in your market at the time you are looking for them. There are two constraints there both of them hinged on time, the first being the developers timing of being on the market and the second being your timing of need for the position. Both of those conspire against you in your ability to find the best person. When I realized this, I realized that companies can actually take a few steps to stop those forces from acting against them.

First, they can stop hiring for positions and start hiring good people, if a good person becomes available, hire them. Find a position for them they will make you more money. This clear the window of their time line.

The second is the companies timing of having a need and for a company not willing to look at a global market, that need is constrained to the best available talent in their geographical region, this is a huge constraint to put on oneself given the fact that by just letting a developer who can do all of their job off-site, work from a remote location, the barrier can be removed. I am amazed that companies still conspire against themselves in such a manner.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#63
post #3

People trying to hire developers through Dice/Monster are demonstrably clueless. Get introductions direct to the decisionmaker. You won't be in a pile of 200 resumes from people who list "Computers: Expert, especially with MsWord" and apply to developer positions. You'll also be dealt with in more reasonable timeframes. Job sites are job hunting for people who enjoy unemployment.

Recruiter here. Going directly to the source is alweays your best option, if that's an option. I exist because the hiring manager has only so many hours in the day to review X applications, let alone interview the applicants. If you are lucky, I get objective criteria from a hiring manager who actually knows what they are looking for and assess the fit of your application in an objective way. If it helps it bothers m…

I'm curious, and maybe a bit skeptical. Why does it bother you that your role is needed?

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#64
post #23

I applied to a kind-of sinking ship in Palo Alto last year. Got through a few interviews, answered all the questions right, and was gently let down. It was a stab in the dark. My friend who worked there (and, in fact, recommended me) told me the developer doing the interviews has never actually recommended a single candidate and is no longer allowed to do interviews. This could still mean that I'm stupid and incompet…

I recently had an interview with a company that involved 6 people interviewing me serially. That sort of thing is grueling in the best of cases. But this one went south with the third interviewer. He seemed to me be someone with something like Aspergers syndrome. He talked in a monotone, fidgeted constantly and was rocking back and forth. While I have no problem working with anyone technically competent, this person was clearly not capable of running an interview.

He asked a technical question to which I answered a more or less standard response. He told me I was wrong. Being a bit stunned (it wasn't a hard question), I asked him what he meant. He gave me a reply that was quite incorrect.

Now, in a normal interview situation if this occurs, I see it as an opportunity to have a conversation. I can explain my point and the interviewer can respond. You can find out a lot about an organization with this kind of interaction.

But in this case, the interviewer just kept saying I was wrong and never responded to my questions or gave an explanation why his answer's were correct except to say that they were. It was very troubling.

I didn't get the job. This might have been because of this interview directly but it certainly was at least partially the cause since I really didn't have much enthusiasm for the next 3 interviews. A company that would allow someone with social interaction issues run an interview is very problematic. I can't imagine who could have done well in that series of interviews given the circumstances.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#65
post #5

I had a similar experience. I just left ClearChannel last month to go work at a startup, and though I went through a recruiter to find my new job, I also applied to a handful of job postings at YC-funded startups (through the jobs link at the top of HN). I believe there were 5 total, and 2 of them had puzzles that I completed correctly. I have an impressive resume, and I was willing to relocate (I live in Los Angeles…

I agree, through a recruiter and I have a job now :). Why the ads, why the questions if you can't take the time to let me know that you cant offer me a job. Would love to see more of that happening!

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#66
1998 called and they want their resume blasts back.

I find work (contracts) by looking for interesting companies whose money I would like to take, then I look them up on LinkedIN to see how connected I am to them. Sometimes I ask my friends to connect me to them, sometimes I just google stalk them to find the appropriate hiring manager's twitter address or email address, then I email them, whether or not they're hiring, and whether or not they're open to contractors. I pitch my value proposition and tell (not ask, tell) them to meet me for coffee or lunch, my treat, and offer three dates that work for me. In 15 years, be it a VC, a VP of a bank, an unfunded founder, or an incredibly busy CTO at a high growth start-up, nobody has ever turned me down for a free lunch.

Then I close them.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#68
post #23

I applied to a kind-of sinking ship in Palo Alto last year. Got through a few interviews, answered all the questions right, and was gently let down. It was a stab in the dark. My friend who worked there (and, in fact, recommended me) told me the developer doing the interviews has never actually recommended a single candidate and is no longer allowed to do interviews. This could still mean that I'm stupid and incompet…

>Also I did a fair amount of the interview on a rooftop, trying to quietly and safely get down without a ladder. Fun times.

Wait, what? Unless this is some figure of speech I'm not familiar with, this requires some explanation.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#69
I have always gotten replies from job applications, but where this hits home for me, is the delay. I've had recruiters take a month to reply, at which point I've probably already accepted an offer from another company.

The companies I ended up strongly considering are those which replied the day after, they are the ones actually interested.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#70
post #5

I had a similar experience. I just left ClearChannel last month to go work at a startup, and though I went through a recruiter to find my new job, I also applied to a handful of job postings at YC-funded startups (through the jobs link at the top of HN). I believe there were 5 total, and 2 of them had puzzles that I completed correctly. I have an impressive resume, and I was willing to relocate (I live in Los Angeles…

Recruiters were definitely more responsive with me, but hey thats their job right ;)

Yeah, but it should be HR's job too.

I think the best recruiters play the role of a modern-day union at this point. When I'm job hunting they are someone the company cares about maintaining a relationship with. Five years from now when I'm next looking the company probably won't even exist, but the recruiter may still be around and wants me to point my friends at them in the meantime. By the transient property of respect, HR departments actually respond to their emails.

Post reply on HN