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The real reason you can't hire developers....

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21–30 of 271 posts

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#21
Specifically in response to the time gaps: it's true that time gaps are bad, but keep in mind these are startups, which means they're juggling about twenty thousand different things at the same time. I think in that domain in particular, some slack may be in order as compared to a 20,000-strong corporation with a dedicated HR department.

Re: weird extra steps: the idea isn't that they're cool. The idea is that if you are willing to attempt it and solve it successfully, it says something about your problem-solving skills. It's not the be-all end-all, but it seems like a decent first-pass filter.

Re: cultural mismatch: if it's a cultural mismatch, you probably shouldn't apply anyway. The thing about a startup is, there are five or ten of you. This isn't just another job. You generally don't just come in at 9, work work work, maybe take lunch with your teammates, and trip it out at 5. You don't just attend the company Christmas party. A startup is typically very much like a family, because everything is riding on everyone. When someone quits IBM, the teammates write it off as a “whatever”. When someone quits at a startup, you spend some serious time looking around to make sure there's nothing scaring them off, because every individual counts a great deal.

In short, culture is critical, and even as a married father of two, signing up for a startup is signing up for a culture and a tight-knit group of friends as much as it is signing up for a job.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#22
Number 1 reason is your lack of ability to relocate right now. It's hard for companies to hire someone remotely and give them a lot of control without knowing more about them.

I do agree with some of your points though. Anytime I hear the "we have xboxes" I immediately translate that to we pay crap and hope the kids we hire don't notice in between games of CoD. The other day a guy was giving me a pitch to come work at his startup and kept talking about the xbox and the office location. Note to companies pitching to potential employees. Idea, equity cut, and salary in that order are way more important than having Aeron chairs.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#23
I applied to a kind-of sinking ship in Palo Alto last year. Got through a few interviews, answered all the questions right, and was gently let down. It was a stab in the dark.

My friend who worked there (and, in fact, recommended me) told me the developer doing the interviews has never actually recommended a single candidate and is no longer allowed to do interviews.

This could still mean that I'm stupid and incompetent but it seems like they missed out on a lot of talent because of the egotism of a single dev they had hiring.

Also I did a fair amount of the interview on a rooftop, trying to quietly and safely get down without a ladder. Fun times.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#24
post #3

People trying to hire developers through Dice/Monster are demonstrably clueless. Get introductions direct to the decisionmaker. You won't be in a pile of 200 resumes from people who list "Computers: Expert, especially with MsWord" and apply to developer positions. You'll also be dealt with in more reasonable timeframes. Job sites are job hunting for people who enjoy unemployment.

Recruiter here. Going directly to the source is alweays your best option, if that's an option. I exist because the hiring manager has only so many hours in the day to review X applications, let alone interview the applicants.

If you are lucky, I get objective criteria from a hiring manager who actually knows what they are looking for and assess the fit of your application in an objective way.

If it helps it bothers me that there's a need for my role and I try to automate myself out of the picture as much as possible.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#25

    If you want to steal some of the best talent in the
    industry, open yourself up to the idea of letting them 
    telecommute or work remotely. 

    Offer up a 3 month introductory period to ensure there's
    a mutual fit and they actually do the work as promised. 
    
    Don't make them shitty offers because they aren't on
    site; there is fudge room depending on their cost of
    living. 

    If you're in the valley, get your head out of your ass.
    Talent is everywhere. We don't all need to move to the
    valley to prove anything. 

    We likely DO love your team and product; that's why
    we applied in the first place. Devs are a funny beast,
    most of us apply to things that interest us.

    Loving your team is not necessarily justification to 
    up and leave everything we've grown to know and love.
    We're not all recent college graduates with no ties to a
    community.

    Open yourselves up to change and boundary pushing.
    Consider opening satellite offices in different large
    cities for your remote devs to work at, together. 
::end rant::

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#26
Counter data:

semi-active search time span: ~4-5 weeks

where: just craigslist & python.org

what: sr. level web frontend or backend

companies: all small/startups, but none are well known in HN

emails sent: I'm quite choosy actually, only applied to ~4 positions a week, which equates to ~20 sent.

results: ~75-80% replied,

out of those replied: ~50-60% replied within a day or two, 2 took more than a week to get back to me, which strangely enough, followed thru with deeper phone interviews.

no on-site interviews (although ~25% I applied are remotes) until one of those turned out to be a recruiter.

Note: I wanted to avoid recruiters since didn't have good experience with them before. But this time it turned out pretty good, got to interview a few companies and landed a decent gig. But since this thread is about no response from direct emails, I did not include these data points from recruiter in my results.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#27

Specifically in response to the time gaps: it's true that time gaps are bad, but keep in mind these are startups, which means they're juggling about twenty thousand different things at the same time. I think in that domain in particular, some slack may be in order as compared to a 20,000-strong corporation with a dedicated HR department. Re: weird extra steps: the idea isn't that they're cool. The idea is that if you…

I don't know about IBM, but I have worked in several large well established companies and when someone (decent) quits everyone looks around to figure out WTF is going on.

I have lived through 2 mass exoduses, where a company started going downhill and the top 50% of developers all leave within 6 months of each other (often in groups).

There is nothing inherently special about a startup. Many established companies have make or break projects, and working on them requires the same sort of commitment.

In short, don't take shit off of potential employers. If they can't get it together enough to get back to you and treat you with whatever level of respect you expect, then that's a sign that you probably don't want to work there.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#29

I don't think this is why companies can't find good developers. To sum up your email: Hi, You've never met me before, but I like your company. I expect to get paid $115K to lead a team as a senior developer, but don't want to relocate in order to be with the team. I feel this type of email should get a response; however, I'm not surprised no one hired you. I'm sorry none of these companies replied. If hiring is as to…

> I expect to get paid $115K to lead a team as a senior developer, but don't want to relocate in order to be with the team.

He targeted companies that claim to accommodate telecommuting. Not hire when being asked looks sneaky.

Re: The real reason you can't hire developers....

#30
post #5

I had a similar experience. I just left ClearChannel last month to go work at a startup, and though I went through a recruiter to find my new job, I also applied to a handful of job postings at YC-funded startups (through the jobs link at the top of HN). I believe there were 5 total, and 2 of them had puzzles that I completed correctly. I have an impressive resume, and I was willing to relocate (I live in Los Angeles…

I have stopped doing puzzles for companies because I had the same experience everytime I solved a puzzle on a companies website. Common courtesy dictates that if you have a problem on your site that would take more than a couple of hours to solve then you should at least bother to reply personally when a candidate solves the problem (I am looking at you Quora). At first I thought it was just because my solution and resume got lost in the stack of applicants so I contacted someone at Quora on thier direct email address. Still no response.
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