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Just don’t

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Re: Just don’t

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or to an overweight person: "you know you'd be a lot healthier if you just lost weight" or "why don't you get a gym membership" or "it's just calories in minus calories out, bro"? Gee, thanks, you're the first person ever to tell me that I should lose weight and it's just a matter of diet and exercise, like every fat person on the planet doesn't already know. It's like saying to a smoker, "You know that's bad for you…

> "you know you'd be a lot healthier if you just lost weight" Not least because weight loss is unlikely to make someone much healthier unless they have type 2 diabetes, severe hypertension, or are way beyond "overweight". There is a substantial population-level association between obesity and morbidity, but it's heavily influenced by those who are extremely obese (which tends to come with a variety of other issues no…

obviously the actual weight matters, but on average this advice is poor.

Across the spectrum of over weight people (from mildly to extremely obese) there are a range of health markers from blood pressure, HDL/LDL/Triglycerides, insulin sensitivity, leptin/ghrelin, sex hormones (and PE/ED), blood sugar, cortisol, inflammation, arterial calcification (on and on the list goes) that are all positively improved by returning to healthy "normal" (not average) weights.

Layne Norton's book "Fat Loss forever" and youtube channel are excellent resources to begin understanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxVCtScf8U

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/43596925-fat-loss-for...

Re: Just don’t

#122
I'm torn on this article. To start I think this is good advice, but I'm not sure it is the __best__ advice to help the people it proclaims to help. I'm actually not sure it even targets the right side of the issue.

The article is likely good advice for those looking to improve the gentleness of their communication skills, but ultimately this will only be a small portion of the people that care enough to improve their communication skills and put these learnings into practice. This still leaves the majority of ones communication open to the use of this word out of ignorance to the issue.

Instead I'd like to encourage those who feel resentment or anger over the use of this word to recognize it for what it more likely is. A mistake on the part of the speaker. An artifact of speech they picked up along the way. Generally just ignorance, nothing personal.

I apply this advice myself in many areas of my life. You can't change everyone, but you can change yourself. So make yourself more resilient where you can.

I'm not exactly sure why I bothered to type all this up, other than I have a feeling there is another perspective here that will reach more people and help those struggling other than trying to correct the speech of the masses. Of course it's never quite that black and white, it's probably a little bit of both.

Re: Just don’t

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're complaining to me about your chronic condition then I will feel compelled to give you advice on things that I think might help you. Heh, I have to admit I chuckled at that one. To be honest, I felt somewhat similarly earlier in my life. In all seriousness, I highly recommend group therapy. You will discover that no matter how much you feel "compelled" to give advice in moments when people are looking for…

You're sort of changing the subject to an easier situation. There is a big difference between a group gathering for therapy, and having someone engage you in 'conversation' where they're cornering you to complain about their ailment.

Still, even in real life, giving unsolicited advice never works in my opinion. It's basically as useless as complaining about something and thinking it will magically change without doing anything different.

Note I have seen the following be useful:

1. Is the person really just saying "I want a hug" with their complaining? If so, and you care about this person, just give them a hug.

2. Depending on your relationship with the person, and if you can accept any blowback, it's also fine to say "I'm sorry, I don't want to be a receptacle for your complaining today."

3. Ask the person if they want help fixing the problem.

Re: Just don’t

#124

This usage of just is fascinating. For instance: Can't we just apply this small change to remediate the larger problem? Why not? Saying such a thing can actually be helpful. Perhaps (and in many cases probably) the other party hasn't considered doing so. However, we're also almost stating that the listener has spent considerable resources coming up with solutions which seem overly complicated to the speaker... "Just"…

> However, we're also almost stating that the listener has spent considerable resources coming up with solutions which seem overly complicated to the speaker...

To be fair, it also indicates that the listener hasn't done a good enough job at explaining why their solution isn't "just" doing that.

It could also indicate that the speaker admits to maybe not getting the problem and "just" can sufficiently signal that the speaker thought the solution was simpler/smaller and needs more details on what's up (why not?). So there it serves as a crutch for the speaker's insecurity.

In the end it can be a useful word even if sometimes it isn't. In the end I'd suggest we don't always overanalyze and ask more additional questions, and adapt to each others use of words instead. I have coworkers who a) don't speak English well and b) have a very blunt way to point out things. Might be difficult the first few interactions to gauge their sentiment but I didn't jump to conclusions, and basically after a Zoom call to chat casually it became clear that's just how they communicate. I do suggest to them sometimes that using a different word might make them seem more approachable or nicer but ultimately I know they are nice and who is to say that my assumptions of how people should talk for me tp deem them polite are the right ones.

Re: Just don’t

#125
post #63

I get a lot more mileage out of "have you tried..." than "why don't you just...". As a recent example, I wrote a system that auto-generates PDF packing slips from an order form, to send to a warehouse for picking and packing. Yesterday a client told me to "just make it landscape" while I was explaining why "just making it landscape" won't solve the problem of giving the warehouse whitespace to pencil stuff in, becaus…

Marriage has taught me to go even further than that. I now ask "are you telling me to get it off your chest, or you want help solving it?". If the former, I don't offer any solutions whatsoever, in any kind of format.

Another useful thing to say, “oh no that sounds terrible, what are you going to do?” It can help reframe from complaining to strategizing, and that can make people more receptive to outside ideas.

Re: Just don’t

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be the most helpful thing for them , but listening to someone else's problems could be emotionally taxing to the person listening. Double so, if the listener has a feeling that he's there just to listen, and that the person talking about the problem just wants to offload their issue to the listener, and is not at all interested about what the listener have to say about the topic. If you want someone to just li…

The parent didn't say you had to stick around. People default to fixing things and need to know that's the wrong thing to do.

In such situation, one should do what is the best for them. Not sticking around or running away may be unnatural and thus also emotionally taxing. Giving advice and trying to help, even if the person just wanted to vent, is not bad.

You [1] came to me with your problem. Now it's not only your problem, it's also my problem, since you shared it with me. I want that problem to go away, and will help you or give you advice how to deal with it. Then I will feel better. If I just listen to you, it may be the best thing for you, but for me it is the wrong thing to do, since I'm not made that way.

I you just want to vent so that you can feel better, don't make me feel worse because of that. Find someone else.

[1] "You" and "me" used for clarity, since "they" & "them" is confusing.

Re: Just don’t

#127
Another one of these that I hate is "why haven't you done X" or "you know X right" not as a question but as a suggestion. When I didn't know about X, or didn't even realize X was an option (particularly when it's niche knowledge that's not obvious), I get extra ticked off about the assumption. Please share your ideas without being condescending, it's worth it.

Re: Just don’t

#128
I'm reading the 'just' in (most of) these examples a bit differently: the person making the suggestions is using the word to acknowledge that the suggested approach is probably a lot simpler than what the struggler was considering, but perhaps good enough (to get started).

If however it turns out the suggestion is not significantly simpler than what was being considered (perhaps because what's being suggested is not as easy as it appears to the one making the suggestion), I can see how that can come across as condescending.

Re: Just don’t

#129
post #87

I've been trying to teach myself not to use the word "just" in my documentation. I was inspired by this legendary PR to the Django docs that fixed all kinds of words that "minimize difficulty involved": https://github.com/django/django/pull/11482

Awesome. It's one of my pet peeves to see "just" or "simply" and similar words in documentation.

It makes the documentation clearer and less condescending to remove words that imply a task is easy. Implying a task is easy doesn't help people to perform the task.

It's especially frustrating when the documentation is incomplete, as most documentation is. For example, "If you need different behavior, just implement a custom component" ... and the custom component documentation is incomplete or missing. sigh

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