Live data from Hacker News

Signal Introduces Stories

signal.org

311–320 of 480 posts

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#311
post #20

Personally I'd rather avoid the feature bloat. I also think it just waters-down the "secure" image they are clearly going for. I mean, broadcasting images to your contact list isn't exactly what I think of when I think "private messaging".

Everything about Signal will make more sense if you forget every opinion you've had or read on a message board, and accept that the project's mission is simply to transition as many people off insecure systems as they can. For example: message board nerds are apoplectic about Signal's phone number requirement, but the systems ordinary people were already overwhelmingly used phone numbers already. As communications tr…

> The cool stuff about Signal is what happens under the hood.

Nobody was asking for stickers, stories, or crypto. Those things aren't cool.

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#312

What are "stories"? What is the use case? If it's a low effort way to spam one's acquaintances, seems like a website/blog would be better for sharing images/text and also has the advantage of not being tied to some platform's walled garden. Also, why does a secure messaging app need stories? Is this part of a trend to make signal more like social media, or to balkanize the web? I think Telegram has something like thi…

'Stories' were made popular by Snapchat in 2013, and they became the most-frequently used part of the app. They're a good way to give life status updates to a lot of friends at once, and provides a good conversation starter. This revives friendships and keeps communications going.

From my experience, they are a non-optional part of socializing. By my estimation, my social and professional networking has materially suffered by not using Instagram or a Snapchat for most of my life. I wish this were not the case.

Stories are popular because a lot of people have uses for them, but it's hard to articulate why they're useful. I'll try to explain:

A website/blog wouldn't be better, because (1) a tiny fraction of people know about RSS, (2) a tiny fraction of people know how to make their own website/blog, (3) a website/blog is not as well-suited for on-the-fly updates like stories, and (4) absent RSS, nobody will check all $n$ of their friend's personal blogs as often as they open their messaging app.

Furthermore, (1) stories are not crawled by default in an easy-to-access way (like Google or the internet archive), (2) the 24-hour time lock leads to different kinds of posts

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#313
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, why do they refuse to implement backups so normal people don't lose data when their phone breaks or the app bugs out?

I don't know about other platforms, but Signal on Android supports backing up to a file, as well as direct transfer of data to another phone.

It supports backing up to a file that you can't specify. This is unhelpful in many use cases.

Example: I am running out of space on my phone. I look, and see Signal is taking 4gb of space. But I would like to preserve a lot of that media. So I buy a mini-SD card and install it in my phone. Yay! Now to turn on Signal chat backups!

Oh, but the backups are hardcoded to a location on your primary storage that you can't change. so even though I have 126gb of free space on the SD card I installed, I can't back Signal up to it and I am still running out of space.

My only option is to try removing every other app I have installed, and hope there is enough space reclaimed to perform a backup, which I can then copy off my system so I can reinstall my apps...WTF.

Meanwhile there is no way to back up a single chat. You can archive it, but that just removes it from your Signal home screen, it doesn't actually create an archive of any kind. And there is no way to back anything up on desktop.

This isn't a feature, it's an antipattern.

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#314
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, why do they refuse to implement backups so normal people don't lose data when their phone breaks or the app bugs out?

Because they haven’t figured out how to do that securely?

Then do it insecurely and warn the user. 'We can't figure out how to do this securely' is their BS excuse for every bad design decision or unimplemented feature.

You might say 'but they don't want to make people less secure, people will get the wrong idea!' But they do this already, in ways that are much worse than allowing the user to make a security decision for themselves.

You can change a setting to prevent screenshots inside the Signal phone app, so you can't take screenshots. Your conversations are now secure, right? Nobody can take pictures of your disappearing messages! WRONG. You can turn on that feature and I can still take screenshots all day, including disappearing messages that you send to me.

Likewise, Signal can't tell if you're downloading pictures or copying text I send to you. You could be backing up everything - my only 'assurance' is that you probably aren't doing it because it's inconvenient.

You can change disappearing messages timer to anything you want! Great! But the change of timer is itself a message. So if we are arrested and police get into one person's Signal, they can see when disappearing messages were turned on and when the timer was lengthened or shortened. Sure, the messages disappeared, but what were you doing on August 23rd at 7:39pm that made you change the timer to 10 minute4s for 3 hours? We know where you were because of your phone's IMEI, I guess we will tell the court that you were trying to cover something up during those 3 hours and charge you with obstruction of justice.

I have asked them to change the latter behavior repeatedly, explaining why it could be a problem for users, and all I ever hear is 'good point, we'll look into it' even though there's no reason that information should be stored.

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#315
post #296
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still of the opinion that encrypted private group chats are an impossible UX problem (1:1 chat is fine). But if I were to trust anyone to find a way to do it properly, it would be Signal.

Matrix, while kind of a PITA for non-technical people to get into, can do it quite well considering the featureset they support.

>while kind of a PITA for non-technical people to get into,

In other words, it has a bad UX. Which was the original point about encrypted group chats.

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#316
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't have much choice, unfortunately: https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms...

They could have supported it until SMS was dead and buried. Also, RCS looks to have an upcoming third-party API, so it was absolutely a choice.

RCS has been around since 2013 and the only alternative client to Google Messages was your device maker's app that was allowed to tie into Google Messages via a device vendor only API (but essentially these were just a skin for Google Messages).

Google has not provided any public API for RCS, and they control the ecosystem fully. If Google wanted other clients to use RCS as a platform, there would be public APIs that Signal, iMessage, Textra, Facebook Messenger and other SMS clients could integrate with.

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#317
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything about Signal will make more sense if you forget every opinion you've had or read on a message board, and accept that the project's mission is simply to transition as many people off insecure systems as they can. For example: message board nerds are apoplectic about Signal's phone number requirement, but the systems ordinary people were already overwhelmingly used phone numbers already. As communications tr…

> The cool stuff about Signal is what happens under the hood. Nobody was asking for stickers, stories, or crypto. Those things aren't cool.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Stickers are widely used in the group chats I am in. I myself have created multiple sticker packs since the sticker feature launched. Before that, several people mentioned they thought Signal looked like a shitty app because it "didn't even have stickers."

Ultimately there was no shortage of boring, cryptographically-secure apps. Signal is filling demand for an app that is both secure and fun to use.

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#318
post #65

Removed SMS support and then added stories. Worried about signal's recent direction. Being able to interact with my remaining non-signal contacts was huge. Really going to miss it. In contrast they are now adding a feature I do not care about at all.

You can still communicate with your SMS-using friends via the normal means… IMO mixing totally secure and totally insecure communications in the same app (the same list view even!) was always a poor idea.

I have never had any problem distinguishing between encrypted and unencrypted communication sin signal because they put a giant padlock icon next to the name of the contact. Now I have to use 2 different apps to handle messaging and set up a different color scheme or something to provide a visual cue about which is which if I respond to a notification in a hurry.

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#319
post #65

Removed SMS support and then added stories. Worried about signal's recent direction. Being able to interact with my remaining non-signal contacts was huge. Really going to miss it. In contrast they are now adding a feature I do not care about at all.

This removed-sms-without-reason is going to be a myth that persists for a while > RCS is coming, and it doesn’t play well with Signal.... and Signal can’t add RCS support because there’s no RCS API on Android. Honestly, the days of any third-party SMS app are numbered. https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms...

It's bullshit. Please stop retconning.

Re: Signal Introduces Stories

#320

What are "stories"? What is the use case? If it's a low effort way to spam one's acquaintances, seems like a website/blog would be better for sharing images/text and also has the advantage of not being tied to some platform's walled garden. Also, why does a secure messaging app need stories? Is this part of a trend to make signal more like social media, or to balkanize the web? I think Telegram has something like thi…

'Stories' were made popular by Snapchat in 2013, and they became the most-frequently used part of the app. They're a good way to give life status updates to a lot of friends at once, and provides a good conversation starter. This revives friendships and keeps communications going. From my experience, they are a non-optional part of socializing. By my estimation, my social and professional networking has materially su…

> They're a good way to give life status updates to a lot of friends at once, and provides a good conversation starter.

I've found with experience that whenever you share something, it needs to be deliberate to chosen people, otherwise it deteriorates into popularity seeking and least-common-denominator feel good spam. I much more prefer the "take photo/video or find a meme, send to specific people each time" flow. With snap, it takes a few seconds to choose, because contacts are sorted by recency. This is the only part of snap I'm using, and it existed before stories.

Signal ended up somewhere inbetween, where you have to create a story (an imo unnecessary layer of i direction) and then add people to the story, which is minor from a tech perspective but huge issue for UX. It increases the friction for this flow.

Post reply on HN