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Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

quillette.com

331–340 of 372 posts

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I'm seeing online Stanford has about 22k students in 2022. 2700 does seem like a large number compared to the student population, and given it seems like it isn't meant to house all the administrative staff, that does seem like a lot. That said, Stanford is private, so I'm not sure they're a good example. Various state universities seem like they would be a more apt target to look at to see what this is lik…

Anecdotally I just looked up the number of municipal employees for 2 random towns with populations of about 28,000 people. 1500 employees. I believe that's including teachers, police, etc. not just administrators.

Terrific insight.

Higher ed's admin:student ratios are closer to resort hotels.

My local uni has definitely transformed into a resort.

One of the consequences of charging full enrollment are the customers now expect a comparable (material) experience.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#332

In the US, both college education and healthcare have become enormous taxpayer wealth extraction schemes. Everyone has a "right" to education and healthcare, therefore we should subsidize it with taxpayer money. That is as far as the politics go. We have stupidly funded the demand side of the equation to where both education and healthcare are incredibly bloated behemoths capable of absorbing all the money thrown at…

Solution. Stop government funding.

For public universities, declining state government funding is the primary reason for tuition increases. Funding for the state university nearest me declined from the state providing more than over 75% of the budget in 2005 to under 25% last year, while the number of staff decreased. Unsurprisingly, tuition increased to make up much of that gap in funding.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#333

In the US, both college education and healthcare have become enormous taxpayer wealth extraction schemes. Everyone has a "right" to education and healthcare, therefore we should subsidize it with taxpayer money. That is as far as the politics go. We have stupidly funded the demand side of the equation to where both education and healthcare are incredibly bloated behemoths capable of absorbing all the money thrown at…

> both college education and healthcare have become enormous taxpayer wealth extraction schemes

Yup.

Early 70s, we started transformation from a manufacturing to a rent seeking economy. Cleverly branded as "supply side", "knowledge worker", and "service industry".

I still can't get over the fact that I have to spend money to use my money. Even more so the less money a person has.

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Cartel”? Nonsense! Provide evidence prestigious universities are colluding on pricing. You can’t because it’s not true.

I have a pretty strong feeling you're being sarcastic. https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2022/01/10/fede...

100% not sarcastic. “Cartel” is a ridiculous assertion and a red herring. It distracts us from a meaningful discussion on solutions.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you even read your own story? What does this have to do with them being a cartel or not? The story doesn't even claim they collude on pricing! It just says that admissions is not needs blind, the way that these universities claim it is.

From CNN: "Back in the 1990s, the Justice Department charged several elite colleges with price-fixing, including many current members of the 568 Presidents Group. Those colleges regularly communicated and gave "essentially the same financial aid award" to any student who was admitted to multiple schools, according to congressional research. The suit ended with a settlement, and a 1994 law allowed colleges to keep wor…

A few of colleges from 20 years ago? That’s all you have?

The plural of (obsolete) anecdotes isn’t evidence!

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#336
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Health Insurance stocks in the US did better than tech stocks after Obamacare passed. Why? Is this a genuine question or is it rhetorical? I can’t really tell these days. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5145008/ Short answer is that insurance companies were “limited” to 20% profits and 80% expenses by ACA. Smarter insurance companies realized quickly that they not only had zero incentives to cut costs,…

You can easily see that all the health insurance companies’ profit margins are in the 5% range, which is not a lot. It is a competitive business without a lot of pricing power. But what it will do is provide consistent, reliable returns. And since more people are getting more healthcare, the magnitude of the profits will obviously be higher, hence the increase in stock price. Basically, the market caps now reflects w…

> It is a competitive business without a lot of pricing power. But what it will do is provide consistent, reliable returns. And since more people are getting more healthcare, the magnitude of the profits will obviously be higher, hence the increase in stock price.

It seems like you’re theory-crafting here rather that describing what is actually happening in the industry.

1. I somewhat sloppily used the term “profits” in my previous post, and I should have used “gross margins”. Specifically, 80% of premium payments have to be used on healthcare expenses. Their profit (~5% as you mentioned) comes after they pay their relatively consistent operating expenses out of their gross margins.

2. The increased number of people getting insured is not what has driven up the insurance companies profits. Those numbers don’t add up.

3. The prices of name brand insurance have increased fairly consistently. It’s not competitive at all, imho. It’s an oligopoly.

4. If you know people who work in medical billing and/or you’ve known a handful of people with substantial medical bills, you will know that hospitals have increased prices for many things to ridiculous levels, and they “nickel and dime” patients at ridiculous markups for anything possible. Why? Insurance companies don’t bat an eye at these expenses any more, and they are not incentivized to do so. As money out increases via payments to providers, money in can increase via premiums, and thereby absolute gross margin can increase proportionally. If you need further proof, check out the actual prices that people pay when insurance doesn’t cover something. Miraculously, charges come down and substantial portions of the bill will be forgiven/waived.

5. Investors have warmed up to the idea that health insurance is a government-supported racket that ultimately screws people who have to pay their own premiums in part or in whole.

Note that I am a fan of most parts of the ACA, but the 80/20 rule (and the misaligned incentives that it facilitated) needs to be fixed. That said, the hospitals and insurance companies are feeding at the trough, they have established a new excessive normal, and they will fight any change to the 80/20 rule by comically pleading poverty.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#337
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My insurance is literally more than 3x higher than it was 15 years ago. It's literally more than my mortgage, and I don't live in a shanty.

What do you think the difference in premiums are between a 20 year old and a 35 year old? What about between 35 and 50? I mean I know only two interesting facts about you, the difference in time, and I already know a common sense reason why your price today is much higher than it would be when you were 15 years younger, in “literally” any time in history, and perhaps it was always about 3x more expensive premiums.

Young people subsidize older people due to the Affordable Care Act forcing it.

https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums

> Age: Premiums can be up to 3 times higher for older people than for younger ones.

It is actually very available information. See age rating factors in these pdfs:

https://www.state.nj.us/dobi/division_insurance/ihcseh/ihcra...

For example, in New Jersey, a gold metal level plan would cost a 64 year old 3 * $730.86 ~ $2,200 per month, which legally has to cover 80% of a person’s expected healthcare costs.

For a silver level plan, ~$1,300 per month will cover 70% of the healthcare costs.

That just shows how much more healthcare people need as they get older.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#338
post #322
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

:-) eh, it always came across to me as a repackaging of the already-existing concept of non-dualism. But i fail to see it’s pragmatic application here. Prestige implies hierarchy, and hierarchy implies ranked measurement. But we can’t define what we’re measuring in terms of quality research or teaching. Apparently, like porn, we’re suppose to just know it when we see it. Like a lot of Pirsigs dialog, it feels a littl…

you don't have to reject cartesian dualism to doubt that you can reduce the quality of artworks or research to 'metrics' or 'ranked measurement'. you just have to not be a complete idiot. hierarchy definitely does not imply ranked measurement

How would you create a hierarchy without ranking? How would you create ranking without measurement? If it’s just biased ranking, there’s nothing to substantiate it and I can just refute it with my own contrived ranking.

That seems to just be a reduction to subjective relativism, which is often the last refuge of people who don’t know what they’re talking about but still want to feel smart. (Or, alternatively, hiding behind rhetorical gimmicks like the “no true Scotsman” fallacy). If they know what they were talking about, I would suspect they could define it. To paraphrase Feynman, if you can’t explain it to a first year student, you don’t really understand.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#339

Stanford has now reached the point that they recently built an entire 35-acre campus just for administrators. [1] This is completely separate from the main campus and miles away. "The campus provides workspace for about 2,700 employees (including three of the university’s eight vice presidents) working in critical areas such as the School of Medicine administration, libraries and archives, business affairs, human res…

Stanford and other top institutions can't really be compared to other schools, students fees are not how these institutions make money. There are massive business arms tying in to fortune 500s, political think tanks, government institutions, etc. It's a whole different game for schools at this level. To understand administrative bloat in the US it's much more instructive to look somewhere like University of Idaho whe…

Just want to caution that the legalese is really important here. I know that at Stanford all the IP and patents stay with the researcher. Meaning that they keep all the money from their discoveries. Contrast this with the UCs where you have to sell the UCs your patents and IP for $1.

Re: Bloated college administration is making education unaffordable

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In education, "supply" itself is not the issue; there are more than enough spots at state, etc. universities. Its supply of prestigious universities, which is controlled by a cartel. Similar to diamonds, which are neither precious nor rare, yet prices are outrageous because they are controlled by a cartel. If/when I become President of the United States, I will hold back all education dollars on cartel-controlled edu…

“Cartel”? Nonsense! Provide evidence prestigious universities are colluding on pricing. You can’t because it’s not true.

Cartel: (noun) a combination of independent commercial or industrial enterprises designed to limit competition or fix prices.

Limit competition: How many new entrants to the prestiguous university club (Ivy League, Stanford, MIT, etc.) have there been in the last 50 years?

Fix prices: How do you explain tuitions growing at 5x inflation consistently since 1990, in an era where information itself has become dirt cheap (the internet.)

There does likely not need to be quid-pro-quo "collusion". I am not envisioning a shadowy meeting room where all the university heads smoke cigars and agree on tuitions. There doesn't need to be. Has any of the elite universities ever cut tuitions, in order to compete with the others?

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