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New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

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Re: New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

#61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better be safe than sorry. Uncontrollable entry is actually uncontrollable and anything could happen.

Such decisions cannot be made in a binary, absolutist way. Risk is reduced to some minimal level, not to zero. The risk here was very low.

And you know this risk was low because? Are you saying that you had more information on this than those agencies tracking the reentry? Otherwise you are speculating.

Re: New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

#62
post #54

This is deeply irresponsible by the CSNA and is a disaster just waiting to happen on the ground. Is it laziness on the part of their flight team or just crass disregard for others safety?

It's economically hardnosed of them. It's on average cheaper to just take the chance and pay off damages if someone is injured or killed. Remember, the highest chance of fatality will be in densely populated lower latitude countries where the monetary cost of killing someone is lower.

The won’t even pay for any damages. They would never allow one of these to reenter over US airspace or other large, powerful countries. But if it falls in the middle of some small country, tough luck getting paid for damages.

Re: New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

#63
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have a primary source handy but there’s tons of news reports. The Côte d’Ivoire crash was in May 2020.

I’ve looked at the news reports and as far as I’ve seen they only reference social media posts which seem to be inconclusive.

[deleted]

Re: New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

#64
post #61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such decisions cannot be made in a binary, absolutist way. Risk is reduced to some minimal level, not to zero. The risk here was very low.

And you know this risk was low because? Are you saying that you had more information on this than those agencies tracking the reentry? Otherwise you are speculating.

Those agencies tracking reentry also are of the opinion that the risk to any individual is negligble: see e.g. https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1587858672373403654

Re: New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

#65
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumping 20 tons of metal from orbit isn't a "calculated risk" its sloppy and dangerous. They could have built the rocket using 50 years of experience knowing this could be an issue, instead they just lie and say it will burn up. They already dropped one on a village.

the real issue is “what is the probability of human injury or death?” Is it 1% per launch? 0.01% 0.000001% The area of the earth’s surface occupied by humans (not their stuff, but the people themselves) is around 8000 km^2 (1m^2 per person) out of a total Earth surface area of 510 million km^2. so the probability is around 1.6E-5 or 0.0016% per launch. This obviously doesn’t account for the specific trajectory or pop…

It's just a known issue that could be trivially avoided in the design phase. Even building for controlled reentry could have allowed them to accurately dump it in the ocean 100% of the time. It just super dick-ish to not do that and lie about every time you launch. The lie that the whole thing burns up on reentry is also super shitty and indefensible when these huge hunks of metal are trivially tracked by scientists and governments world wide.

Re: New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

#66
post #55
post #29

My flight from the Canary Islands to Portugal was delayed for ~2 hours because of this. Everyone was a bit on edge and it seems extremely irresponsible, dangerous, and wasteful.

That's a major overreaction.

Not according to the ESA[1], NASA[1], Portugese airspace authorities, or our captain. Or my dad, for that matter, who works for NASA (some of his projects specifically involve space debris cleanup). But thanks for your input, random internet stranger.

[1] https://www.space.com/nasa-esa-space-chiefs-condemn-china-ro...

Re: New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

#67

This is deeply irresponsible by the CSNA and is a disaster just waiting to happen on the ground. Is it laziness on the part of their flight team or just crass disregard for others safety?

I'd chock it up under crass disregard for others safety. They drop boosters on their own people and don't care: https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/china-keeps-dropping...

>China's defiance of this norm has resulted in some horrific scenes as its boosters have periodically crashed into villages.

Re: New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

#68
post #62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's economically hardnosed of them. It's on average cheaper to just take the chance and pay off damages if someone is injured or killed. Remember, the highest chance of fatality will be in densely populated lower latitude countries where the monetary cost of killing someone is lower.

The won’t even pay for any damages. They would never allow one of these to reenter over US airspace or other large, powerful countries. But if it falls in the middle of some small country, tough luck getting paid for damages.

They are signatory to a treaty that requires them to pay for damages. And they had no control over where this booster came down (except that it would come down between 41S/41N, roughly), so your "they would never allow" is incorrect.

Re: New Long March 5B Uncontrolled Reentry Tracked by Aerospace's Experts

#69
post #62
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's economically hardnosed of them. It's on average cheaper to just take the chance and pay off damages if someone is injured or killed. Remember, the highest chance of fatality will be in densely populated lower latitude countries where the monetary cost of killing someone is lower.

The won’t even pay for any damages. They would never allow one of these to reenter over US airspace or other large, powerful countries. But if it falls in the middle of some small country, tough luck getting paid for damages.

China signed the Outer Space Treaty. Your rocket your damage your bill.
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