I fought the PayPal and I won • Hacker News Board

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#321

Post by ymeskhout » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 9:06 PM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #294

skrebbel wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just read "Eleven Magic Words" and I'm entirely baffled. Also what a writer, wow.

Eh, if he were a great writer, I'd understand the point of the story, specifically what was so powerful about the eleven-word incantation. Which I don't. I would like my 3 minutes back, Your Honor. Apparently I'd have to be an attorney to get it, in which case I'd have presumably learned about this obscure legal hack in law school.

> I'd understand the point of the story, specifically what was so powerful about the eleven-word incantation

That's the point, there was nothing remarkable about the eleven words. Goes to show you how arbitrary the system can be.

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#322

Post by ymeskhout » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 9:12 PM UTC

NaturalPhallacy wrote: post #312

ggreer wrote: post #17

The author of this article is a public defender in the pacific northwest. He sometimes writes for Jesse Singal, but he also has his own substack.[1] Many of his posts provide a unique window into the criminal justice system. If that sounds interesting to you, I strongly recommend reading more of his writing. In my opinion, his greatest hits are Eleven Magic Words [2] and Death of a Client [3]. 1. https://ymeskhout.su…

Thanks for the recommendation! From Eleven Magic Words Unlocked: > Recall how plea deals are structured, and how the entire purpose of a suspended jail sentence is to dangle the anvil over someone’s head to “encourage” them to do the things they’re supposed to do. I was in a relationship with a police officer for a while, and this is what she said about probation: "Fuck that, send me to fuckin jail." And she reiterat…

Very true! I've had many clients opt for jail. The benefit of jail is that it's at least definite. The pervasive uncertainty in probation amplifies the stress factor, especially since sanctions can come out of nowhere and wreck your life.

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#323

Post by bragr » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

galangalalgol wrote: post #243

duxup wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brazil (1985 film) was not supposed to be an instruction manual! The scale of these absurdities is just wild. Years ago I signed up for a domain for my blogger.com blog. At some point google decided to transfer the management of that domain to google workspaces ... I don't know how or why but they did. So when it expired I was told to login to google workspaces, but I don't have a google workspaces account at the ema…

Are there options for small business payment processing that don't invite comparisons to dystopias? I think crowdsourced patronage is a great model for society to fund creative works now that copyright regulations have largely been captured, but with Patreon ignoring security, and paypal being this disfuncional... Is there a safe way to accept something like vinmo for micropayments?

Paypal owns venmo

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#324

Post by gwd » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 9:20 PM UTC

drstewart wrote: post #193

gwd wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Flat earther" is an accurate representation of their beliefs; it doesn't say whether those beliefs reflect reality or not. "Sex realist", however, implies that this Colin person's beliefs correspond to reality, while his opponent's beliefs do not. Imagine if flat earthers started going around calling themselves "geological realists" -- anyone who then used that term would pretty clearly identify themselves as aligne…

Ah yes, "realist" is loaded but "denier" is neutral. So can we neutrally consider TRAs to be "biological denialists"?

OK, I agree that "denier" is probably not neutral. I was more focused on explaining why "realist" wasn't neutral, than actually coming up with a better option (particularly as I don't actually know anything about this Colin person we're talking about).

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#325

Post by eesmith » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #314

eesmith wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't being that pedantic. Your list didn't include federated systems like Mastadon or IRC. It didn't include open source systems like Zulip that you can host yourself. I don't use one of the big email providers, so I do get bounces when an organization thinks my ISP is untrusted. But that's not "can't even send e-mails if private companies don't like your 'sender reputation'" only "can't send e-mails to some peop…

> And I already commented on your "As it's private land" in my "fantasy libertarian future where everything has been privatized" Ah, that's actually a real example, from London https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jul/24/revealed-pseu... : "Outside City Hall on the south bank of the Thames, home to London’s democratically elected mayor and assembly, private security guards working for the More London estate (ultim…

Are we anywhere near close to selling out city halls in the way you describe, in such a way that "private companies own every method of articulating your views" is meaningful?

I specifically called out POPS as something I don't like.

FWIW, the HQ for the Greater London Authority has since moved, to a building owned by the Greater London Authority - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Hall,_London_(Newham) . (Confusingly, as I just learned, it's not a city hall, in that it does not serve a city.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privately_owned_public_space says "the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan promised to publish new guidelines on how these spaces are governed." - any progress?

> If someone says they support free speech except when private companies are involved, IMHO they might as well say they support free speech except on days ending in Y.

IMHO, those who support free speech without also supporting the right of free association ... are not actually supporting free speech. Hecklers do not have a veto right.

I would change it by having and enforcing significantly stronger anti-trust laws, restoring restrictions on media conglomeration, stronger personal privacy rights, including strict limitations on resale of personal information, and restoring postal banking for anyone to use. For starters.

Yet the result will still have all major online spaces be privately owned and nearly all Radio and TV channels, newspapers and billboards owned by private corporations.

Do you think it would still be so dystopian?

Could you elaborate more on real-world examples of your points #3 and #4?

Regarding #3 has many cases where a college has changed its mind on inviting a speaker, but every case I've read seems to be a valid exercise of a right of free association.

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#326

Post by mustache_kimono » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 9:30 PM UTC

a_shovel wrote: post #316

mustache_kimono wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can go pretty deep in the weeds in a thread that is AFAIK flagged and dead. > Saying Singal "obviously" operates in good faith is an exaggeration. From what I've heard and read of Jesse's, he seems to take great pains to be honest and fair. He seems to me to obviously be operating in good faith. Or as I would expect a curious, thoughtful journalist to act. But, yes, you and others may come to other conclusions. An…

The word "seems" is kinda the crux of the issue here. Singal has the tone of a curious, thoughtful jouralist who enters into research with no pre-established biases, and Hobbes has the tone of a guy who gets into Twitter arguments. The problem is that tone is not important, what's true is important. You can't determinte the truth just through the tone of the person communicating with you. A tone of thoughtful neutral…

Theres a lot to mine here, but I'm really not going to be the one who gets in a tiff with you about this.

I think you need to step away from the keyboard, dude.

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#327

Post by a_shovel » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 9:40 PM UTC

mustache_kimono wrote: post #326

a_shovel wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "seems" is kinda the crux of the issue here. Singal has the tone of a curious, thoughtful jouralist who enters into research with no pre-established biases, and Hobbes has the tone of a guy who gets into Twitter arguments. The problem is that tone is not important, what's true is important. You can't determinte the truth just through the tone of the person communicating with you. A tone of thoughtful neutral…

Theres a lot to mine here, but I'm really not going to be the one who gets in a tiff with you about this. I think you need to step away from the keyboard, dude.

Okay, that's just rude.

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#328

Post by pie_flavor » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 10:12 PM UTC

Jon_Lowtek wrote: post #101

> the contract you “agreed” to means you are legally not allowed to take them to a real court. Your only recourse is arbitration. americans can sign away their rights to sue at their own courts? That seems wrong. For me, as a german, the paypal contract reads that i can escalate a conflict to the EU consumer protection agency or the french regulatory authority for financial institutions (which signs their banking lic…

There is always a clause saying you can opt out of the arbitration stranglehold in writing, it'd be unenforceable if there wasn't. It's just that nobody gives enough of a damn to utilize it, and it's time-gated, so by the time you actually run into a dispute, you're already stuck.

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#329

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 11:20 PM UTC

gw98 wrote: post #306

simiones wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Kafka's The Trial is an even better fit - in Brazil, you could at least see some of the machinations unfolding - in The Trial, like in reality, you only hit a wall of the bureaucrats telling you that your case is being studied with no way of knowing when or if you will ever get anything more.

This sounds like AWS support on a bad week.

Or Google support on a good week

Re: I fought the PayPal and I won

#330

Post by aidenn0 » Fri, Nov 04, 2022, 11:23 PM UTC

jibe wrote: post #220

photochemsyn wrote: post #215

This piece demonstrates excellent writing skills - bits of humor interspere information-dense sections on legalese, allowing the reader to easily absorb the information. As far as the byzantine arbitration process described here, signed off on by the US Supreme Court and adopted across most of the corporate world, with the obvious intent of making it hard for ordinary citizens to sue corporations for damages, see thi…

There should be real skepticism about arbitration in user agreements, but didn’t make it easier in this case? Only someone rich or famous enough to entice a free lawyer could afford to sue PayPal over a suspended account. But many many more people could afford to try arbitration.

The only issue I saw here was that the process was buried in a giant service agreement, and customer support was factually incorrect about possible recourse.