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Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

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Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#71

Post by chris11 »

readingnews wrote: post #61

Honestly, what? Every job I have had in IT/programming/universities/heavy industry have been "at will". We can fire you at any time for any reason. Is silicon valley not like this? What is this "advanced notice"?? No, really, I am not taking sides, but is this how it works at some places? I have been working for several decades, I have _never_ heard of this.

Federal and California WARN acts require advance notification for mass layoffs. It's still "at will", but more regulations come into play if a lot of people lose their jobs.

Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#72

Post by philliphaydon »

readingnews wrote: post #61

Honestly, what? Every job I have had in IT/programming/universities/heavy industry have been "at will". We can fire you at any time for any reason. Is silicon valley not like this? What is this "advanced notice"?? No, really, I am not taking sides, but is this how it works at some places? I have been working for several decades, I have _never_ heard of this.

When companies plan to make a portion of a company redundant they typically need to annouce their intentions in advance, depending on the country. As is the case of this lawsuit.

This is different to an employee being let go. This isn't a bunch of people being fired, this is retrenchment due to reorganization.

Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#73

Post by falcolas »

readingnews wrote: post #61

Honestly, what? Every job I have had in IT/programming/universities/heavy industry have been "at will". We can fire you at any time for any reason. Is silicon valley not like this? What is this "advanced notice"?? No, really, I am not taking sides, but is this how it works at some places? I have been working for several decades, I have _never_ heard of this.

California is at-will. And it still requires 60 days notice for a mass-layoff, thorough a separate act, because it's a special case that's covered by a separate law.

> “an employer may not order a mass layoff, relocation, or termination at a covered establishment unless, 60 days before the order takes effect, the employer gives written notice of the order”

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Cal-WARNAct.html

Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#74

Post by rtkwe »

chevman wrote: post #17

I highly doubt HR at Twitter is unaware of the laws here and not giving 60 days notice as part of the exit packages. This is basic stuff easily remedied by corrected exit package details if it did in fact happen.

It's also been 2 full days since one of the people in the suit received their termination information though so I would bet they know what Twitter's plan was for at least their termination. If not why didn't they have the info?

Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#75

Post by spoils19 »

rtkwe wrote: post #50
pb7 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how lawsuits work. You don't sue someone for something they might do with zero indication that they will. When you buy a company headquartered in California and elect to layoff half of it, you probably know your legal obligations.

The person suing got their termination notification on 11/1 so I imaging they know more about what their termination actually entails than you or I do. Also Musk consistently pushes and oversteps the legal boundaries of what he can and can't do to get his way. Him being in charge of Twitter at all is because he was forced to execute a contract he willingly signed what makes you think he'll be more calmly compliant to…

pb7 is probably correct here, as they are in many things. Elon probably knows what he's doing, you don't get to that level of businessmen without making all the right decisions.

Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#76

Post by e40 »

nomel wrote: post #39
e40 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stunning thing is that he didn't consult a proper lawyer that would have told him how to avoid the lawsuit.

> he didn't consult a proper lawyer Do you have any evidence for this?

I run an HR department, albeit not for one as large as twitter. I have done layoffs. I always consulted a lawyer and it never triggered lawsuits. There are layoffs all the time at large companies that don't trigger lawsuits.

Either he consulted a terrible lawyer or none at all.

Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#77

Post by rajeshp1986 »

baidifnaoxi wrote: post #15
cronix wrote: post #2

> Additional plaintiffs, Justine De Caires, Jessica Pan, and Grae Kindel said they were terminated on November 3 by being locked out of their accounts. > Under Twitter’s takeover deal terms, Musk had agreed to keep employee compensation and benefits the same. That means the laid-off employees should receive 60 days of salary and the cash value of the stock they were to receive within three months of their last date a…

This is exactly it. Terminated technically means, no longer receiving compensation or benefits. If Musk is basically saying “stop working” and we will pay you for the next 60 days (and even beyond), then this is completely legal as long as they are not restricted from seeking other employment during this “notice period” Edit: IANAL

From what I hear from my personal connections at Twitter. They will be given 60 days pay so he is circumventing that California law.

Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#78

Post by gnicholas »

cma wrote: post #11

The in-office requirement seems like clearly constructive dismissal given this: "2-day a week office requirement = 20% voluntary departures" "Day-0...sharpen your blades boys!" https://fortune.com/2022/10/06/elon-musk-jason-calacanis-ret... An office requirement because you think it helps the culture is one thing; an office requirement simply because you know the attrition it will cause so you "sharpen your blades"/s…

I don't think that's how constructive dismissal works (I am a former lawyer, but not an employment law specialist). I believe it is based on objective factors, not subjective intent or awareness of the likely outcome.

If an employer says "you have to come back into the office 2x weekly" that is different from "you have to commute to our new office, located 60 miles away". The latter would be constructive dismissal because it is new, unexpected, and a material challenge for many employees. Ditto if they removed half the bathrooms, didn't provide enough office space for the workers, cut the parking lot in half, etc.

But asking employees to resume doing something that they were willing to do when they first joined the company (assuming they joined pre-pandemic) would be difficult to characterize as constructive dismissal.

Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#79

Post by kenjackson »

emedchill wrote: post #19
cronix wrote: post #2

> Additional plaintiffs, Justine De Caires, Jessica Pan, and Grae Kindel said they were terminated on November 3 by being locked out of their accounts. > Under Twitter’s takeover deal terms, Musk had agreed to keep employee compensation and benefits the same. That means the laid-off employees should receive 60 days of salary and the cash value of the stock they were to receive within three months of their last date a…

According to a leak to Business Insider[0], they are still "employed" but are not allowed to work. [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/read-blunt-email-telling-twi...

If that's the case, I bet the Twitter employees who still have a job, wish they got laid off. 60 days of pay is better than just resigning, which is what I'm sure I would do.

Re: Twitter faces a class action lawsuit over mass employee layoffs with proper

#80

Post by ceejayoz »

spoils19 wrote: post #75
rtkwe wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person suing got their termination notification on 11/1 so I imaging they know more about what their termination actually entails than you or I do. Also Musk consistently pushes and oversteps the legal boundaries of what he can and can't do to get his way. Him being in charge of Twitter at all is because he was forced to execute a contract he willingly signed what makes you think he'll be more calmly compliant to…

pb7 is probably correct here, as they are in many things. Elon probably knows what he's doing, you don't get to that level of businessmen without making all the right decisions.

> you don't get to that level of businessmen without making all the right decisions

C'mon; he literally just tried desperately to get out of the Twitter deal that's the direct cause of these layoffs.

Jeff Bezos's decisions about where to stick his weiner cost him tens of billions of dollars.

No one makes "all the right decisions".

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