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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#791

Post by ipaddr »

BoorishBears wrote: post #636
ipaddr wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you realize that black people are wondering the same thing about you and how unfair it is to black people. I doubt white people are surprised by other white people can be racist. It is part of mainstream media. What may surprise you is many black people can be racist against other black people too.

> I hope you realize that black people are wondering the same thing about you and how unfair it is to black people. Interesting... when race hadn't been specified, people wondering that about me was something that only happened in movies. But the moment I specifically mention white people then "well black people are wondering it too!!!!!" - It's almost like you don't care either way as long as you're running interfer…

Who said you were black or that I was white? White, brown, yellow and others live in Sudan.

Do you believe everyone who visits here is white? I would guess half of the people on here have various shades of color.

Your views are white and black and that's not reality. The world is not a movie. Most people in the world are not even white or black. Why are you excluding them?

Why do you think it is fair to let in less qualified black students over more qualified asian and Indian students?

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#792

Post by kortilla »

93po wrote: post #770
leereeves wrote: post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds silly, until you realize that "African-American" is just code for black, from a time when saying "black" was considered mildly racist.

It's still mildly uncomfortable depending on how it's used. As a white guy I usually say "they're a black person" or "a person who's black" when referring to a non-specific person. Adding "person" I feel is helpful in the same way it's better to reference "a Jewish person" versus "a Jew"

Mildly uncomfortable for who?

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#793

Post by strikelaserclaw »

chengiz wrote: post #689
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

> We're far from privileged. Indian-American father here as well. You came to the US from India. You are probably upper caste. You almost certainly got a good quality education in India for cheap. Your parents probably had servants. You are privileged. End of story.

not to mention he must have come here 20+ years ago for an education, back then it was even rarer for an indian to come to us to study.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#794

Post by ams92 »

pmonks wrote: post #539
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

What makes you think he’s only going to get a great CS education at the Ivies, Cal, Caltech, Stanford, etc.? Very few of the best graduates I’ve worked with in my ~30 year career studied at those schools - it was places like UW, UBC and Waterloo that stood out to me as producing a high number of high quality, socially adapted graduates. [edit] and before anyone asks, no I’m not Canadian

The top ranked schools only help with getting your first job, and that's only if you want to work in big tech. Unlike some other industries, you can over compensate by networking or doing side projects if you don't have a high pedigree degree.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#795

Post by laomai »

I’ve heard it said on some podcast that race cropped up as an intentional structure to obfuscate class distinctions:

- post slavery, many formerly enslaved people had better skills than poor white people

- to prevent poor white people from joining forces with these formerly enslaved people as a large class of “the poor” vs. small class of “the wealthy” racial distinctions began to be used more frequently

- this had the effect of basically allowing the “poor white man” to side with “wealthy whites” (regardless of if something was in their best interests or not) because he could console himself with “I may be poor but at least I’m white” — even though the rich whites often advanced laws and regulations that were generally detrimental to the poor as a “class group”.

Is there any hard data on this or is it just heresay/opinion?

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#796

Post by ams92 »

xyzzyz wrote: post #788
felix_n wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as we're talking about fair, is it fair that your son, who was given every possible advantage by his well-educated and affluent parents, is graded on the same blind rubric as a kid whose father is a felon for possessing a couple ounces of marijuana and whose mother has to work 3 shitty retail jobs? Wouldn't it be reasonable to argue that the second kid getting, say, a nearly (but not quite) perfect SAT score…

Doesn’t your argument only highlight how appalling it is to consider something as crude as the race of the applicant? Even if you disregard how crude the official government racial classifications are (black Americans have much more in common with white Americans than with black Africans, for example, and Pakistanis have much more in common with Afghanis than with the former have with Japanese or the latter have with…

> I’ll be very explicit here: the universities practicing the policies currently discussed in the Supreme Court don’t care about hardship even close to as much they care about visual diversity.

This is the part that bothers me, they want all the colors of the rainbow but do not care if they are actually helping their students move up in the world.

I went to an ivy, and sure the student body was "diverse" by race but I did not encounter many people from lower classes.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#797

Post by nradov »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #784
nradov wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA also has a positive net migration rate with the EU.

Does that still hold if you exclude poor post-soviet countries? they are like half of EU

Yes, the USA also has a positive net migration rate with richer western EU countries.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#798

Post by geraldyo »

jriot wrote: post #734

Eight years ago I was accepted to do a PhD in either economics or mathematics at a local state school, no where near any ranking list. However, I had just separated from the military a year prior after 11 years as enlisted member. I was the first one in my family to graduate college, let alone be accepted for a PhD program. During the orientation process I had to speak with a young woman about grants and scholarships…

You're stating yourself that class is the problem and haven't even realized.

Why do you need a grant or scholarship?

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#799

Post by tstrimple »

hardware2win wrote: post #732
felix_n wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read it over again Magoo: the subject is a specific kind of degree and how it opens doors for a specific industry in the Bay Area. A specific industry known for being insanely competitive and requiring almost comical qualifications to get in. Put the pieces together.

I still stand with my point Degree is not worth this much.

Your opinion is contradicted by reality.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltnietzel/2021/10/11/new-...

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#800

Post by garfieldnate »

random314 wrote: post #754
complexmango wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Astounding to see racism and ignorance represented as virtue signaling so blatantly! Are you aware that the majority of STEM seats in Indian colleges are set aside for either affirmative action for ‘lower’ castes (itself an arbitrary criteria) and women? The average man in India is competing for approx 10% of college seats! And saying an Indian STEM degree is worth millions in lifetime earnings reveals even more igno…

> Are you aware that the majority of STEM seats in Indian colleges are set aside for either affirmative action for ‘lower’ castes (itself an arbitrary criteria) and women? And these seats are never filled and go to upper castes anyway? My class was supposed to be 50% low caste with 25% Dalits in a class of 60. There were literally 2 Dalits in my class. And of late, the OBC categories are being crowded in by upper cas…

Curious non-Indian here, how did you know that there were exactly two Dalits in your class? Is this a thing people talk about? Were they open about it? Or do you just recognize them on sight?
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