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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#701

Post by leereeves »

nanidin wrote: post #593
kvathupo wrote: post #421

One of the most pernicious consequences of this fixation on race is the definition of a person by an arbitrary social construct. Although they all check the same box, they have very different experiences and cultural backgrounds: * Black descendents of slaves vs African immigrants [1] * Chinese Americans vs Hmong Americans (a higher poverty rate than Black Americans! [2]) * A Korean who grew up in Koreatown LA vs one…

When I was in 11th grade, an Egyptian-American had a future scholarship rescinded because she was not African American.

That sounds silly, until you realize that "African-American" is just code for black, from a time when saying "black" was considered mildly racist.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#702

Post by notlukesky »

RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

It's interesting that Mike Burry of the Big Short fame just did a post on this on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/michaeljburry/status/1587420720644214799

The post is this since he famously deletes all his Twitter posts:

If you are denying or justifying discrimination against Asian applicants for colleges or jobs, you know exactly how all the most oppressive racists of the past felt.

--

By the way did you ever consider having your child apply to schooling in other countries that are purely exam and test based and somehow produce the engineers that FAANG companies love to hire? The education in those countries are almost free compared to the US and they graduate with minimal or zero debt and get hired for very high salaries by FAANG companies. Just look at the number of foreigners at FAANG companies with undergraduate STEM degrees from the rest of the world. They often do a masters or PHD (for free usually with TA or RA responsibilities) to get acclimated to the US and its nuances which your child does not need.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#703

Post by grog454 »

RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

> My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged.

Define privileged. You came to the U.S. which means you had the means and impetus to do so. Doesn't that already put in the top 50th percentile of world population? 50 is wild speculation on my part and it could be higher or lower.

I'm almost positive you are more privileged than someone born into a modern indigenous South American or African community. But what does it even matter? "Privileged" is completely relative and irrelevant because anyone who makes it past about the age of 18 is in some sense fortunate.

> Is it fair to penalize my son for working hard and being an excellent student?

No. You're son will have to overcome unfair and unfortunate circumstances just like you did. Hopefully he has been prepared to do so.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#704

Post by RickJWagner »

RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

It is not fair to penalize your son. The system needs adjustment.

Thank you for coming to America and for raising your family here. We are collectively richer for it.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#705

Post by Pigalowda »

mythhouse wrote: post #577
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

Quoted post unavailable.

You created a new profile to privilege troll? So many fish took the bait.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#706

Post by felix_n »

mythhouse wrote: post #577
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

Quoted post unavailable.

I'm glad someone pointed that out. Most Indians I've known have been completely oblivious both to how the caste system favored them, as well as how ludicrously archaic and objectively absurd it is to outside observers.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#707

Post by [deleted] »

chengiz wrote: post #689
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

> We're far from privileged. Indian-American father here as well. You came to the US from India. You are probably upper caste. You almost certainly got a good quality education in India for cheap. Your parents probably had servants. You are privileged. End of story.

[deleted]

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#708

Post by felix_n »

hardware2win wrote: post #685
mythhouse wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is impossible to predict value of degree Surely a stem degree and an opportunity to get a post graduate stem degree in a blazing hot tech market is worth more than $30. Do you really think GP and a venezuelan asylee have same amount of privilege because they both came over with $30 in their pockets. Yet that was the logic GP used to justify his lack of privilege.

All im saying is that you are probably giving degree too much value You guys over there seem to be treating degree like the only way to better life

Read it over again Magoo: the subject is a specific kind of degree and how it opens doors for a specific industry in the Bay Area. A specific industry known for being insanely competitive and requiring almost comical qualifications to get in. Put the pieces together.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#709

Post by orestarod »

kamaal wrote: post #465
etempleton wrote: post #110

Part of the American dream is that the feeling that there is no rigid social class. Everyone is a millionaire down on their luck. You only need to work harder or be more clever—ideally both. To some extent, it is true. Realistically, however, it is rare to move more than one or two income brackets from where your parents were when they were your age. Race in America, however, is fraught. The history of racism is rece…

>>Everyone is a millionaire down on their luck. You only need to work harder or be more clever—ideally both. Race is an unchangeable, decided at-birth deal. Class on the other hand changes based on how you succeed to that end. People do feel class as something that is not fixed, and can be changed. In some way getting rid of Racism means changing other people, and changing class requires one to change one's own ways.

The problem when you do not perceive class, is that you view those of the same class as adversaries on your way to the top rather than people on the same boat as you, needing to cooperate to improve your overall position and fix your problems. Lower class problems are other people's problems, because you are not really a part of it or won't be for long more (so you think).

Basic human life conditions should really not be up to a game of "success" that by definition has few winners. In my opinion at least.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#710

Post by felix_n »

RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

As long as we're talking about fair, is it fair that your son, who was given every possible advantage by his well-educated and affluent parents, is graded on the same blind rubric as a kid whose father is a felon for possessing a couple ounces of marijuana and whose mother has to work 3 shitty retail jobs? Wouldn't it be reasonable to argue that the second kid getting, say, a nearly (but not quite) perfect SAT score and a 3.9 GPA is at least as impressive, or arguably more impressive, than your little darling keeping his train on the tracks that you and your wife have laid out for him?
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