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Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

sile-typesetter.org

41–50 of 181 posts

Re: Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

#41
post #6

I am really desperate for an alternative.

troff exists.

My needs are pretty simple - a program that makes grocery lists that I print. groff with the ms macros works very well. I used to use LaTeX but never figured out how to use it without installing gigabytes of stuff. This is my fault - surely I could have learned plain TeX, or learned how to work the TeX distribution to only install the stuff I needed. But ultimately it was just easier to get going with groff.

Re: Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In typical Microsoft fashion it has enough to check the box but not enough to actually be useful. Does it generate diffs/patches that ultimately can be used to reconstruct the document? Can I take a document and apply a patch and get exactly the same as you get? Can I reorder and edit patches? The answer is no.

Interesting, I didn't know Tex users would want those sort of facilities. I've used Word with track changes in enterprise environments and it does the job, I've never had to use patches for it though (and wouldn't).

For enterprise environments, where demands usually are low to non-existent, Word does fine. In academic environments, when journals are involved, when a document is being worked on by several people simultaneously (in varying meanings of that word) and when data may come from several different outside sources, it is massively inadequate.

Re: Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not just use Acrobat Does Acrobat have any typesetting capabilities? I thought another app did that and just finalised through Acrobat.

There's acrobat editor, though its more limited than I assumed it seems.

Adobe's Acrobat editor is painful and barely usable even for ordinary prose. There's no way I'd try it for math. To be fair though, it does not seem intended for heavy-duty editing - it's more for: someone gave me this PDF, I don't have the source document, I need to make some little tweaks directly to the PDF.

Re: Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

#44

Something I've wondered, and the Tex users here can probably answer - why not just use Acrobat or Word for math? Does it not support something?

I simply don't like those binary formats. I can't use sed, grep, etc. with .docx files. My workflow for doing notes is primarily CLI-based, and thus using Word/Libreoffice is something I avoid if possible and if it makes sense.

Another pro is that I can use git for tracking changes

Re: Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

#45
post #29
post #6

I am really desperate for an alternative.

I've used texmacs (unrelated to TeX despite the name) with good success. Never went particularly deep into it though.

I've been using texmacs for a little over year now, and have loved it. For me, the nicest part is much simpler creation and editing of tables and aligned math. I also appreciate the image insertion; in LaTeX my images often end up not quite where I want them (I know, you can specify "here" for your images, but I'd prefer if they were just "there" to start with). Of course, depending on your use case, your mileage may vary.

Re: Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

#46
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work with TeX quite a lot and I can't even really understand intuitively the principles of the language design let alone the grammar. Like 15 years later and I'm still copy and pasting spells. I'd love to see an CST of my document and figure out why I'm writing the characters I'm writing!

My experience with TeX is a complete opposite. I feel like I can do pretty much anything in plain TeX, with a very good feel of what it is doing in its 'guts'. I wrote parsers in compilers in pure TeX (the latter was admittedly a silly academic exercise). It took a very thorough reading of 'The TeXbook' but after that I am constantly amazed at how deliberate and tasteful Knuth's choices were. TeX is simply ... elegan…

> latest fads

Context-free languages are the standard for decades now. They haven't been in the very early days of computing due to a lack of formal education of programmers and because they come with a certain, but tiny, memory requirement.

What Knuth did with TeX was a violation of KISS. There's no good reason, but several downsides, to mix markup, code, and interpreter state like this.

Re: Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

#47
post #26

TeX is one of those bits of software that's so complex to replace, it'll take another few decades (and likely a few false starts) before we can get there. The fundamentals of TeX's typesetting are amazing, but everything else is just bolted on. You'd probably want to rebuild it with its own, custom language, perhaps inspired more by modern XML/markdown rather than the old TeX language. The biggest problem that we're…

MathML is not really for human to type, just as you rarely type long XML by hand. I don’t see the point of MathML at all.

I think it was designed as a low-level browser standard, not an authoring language. It is supposed to provide a stable, standardized target for authoring languages to compile to. Think of it as WASM for math markup. It makes sense if languages for authoring math is an unsettled design space where we need diversity and experimentation. As a browser standard, like WASM, MathML should enable people to experiment with new ideas and hopefully evolve a better authoring language than we would have got if we had tried to invent a language and standardize it at the same time.

Re: Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

#48
post #36
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TeX itself is not really complex. The implementation is fine. The hard part is the ecosystem. Any contender is going to face a daunting task of explaining why adopters should throw away 50 years of collective work of thousands of people that went into TeX packages in CTAN. Math notation is at best 1% of the reasons why people use TeX. Packages are.

I think the argument comes down to complexity. Getting Markdown --> Pandoc featureset up to a reasonable fidelity is the next stage IMO, especially if Markdown can be made to support the most common downloaded TeX extension packages.

Please keep Markdown simple as it is.

Feel free to come up with something new that supports Markdown as a subset or overlaps with Markdown.

Re: Sile: A Modern Rewrite of TeX

#49
post #35

Does anyone use ConTeXt these days? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConTeXt

I did typeset in masters thesis in ConTeXt. It worked okay enough, but for me, it didn't provide any features that make up for the increased time spent searching for stuff because there's less documentation and a much smaller community.
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