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American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

economist.com

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Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#631

Post by mythhouse »

worik wrote: post #584
mythhouse wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>> My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us >I hate this Strong words. You do not know their struggles, or their stories (beyond one fact and one assumption). Better to use weak words, because you are in a weak position

Yes i can only go by what was written in the comment.

> You do not know their struggles, or their stories

By your logic no one can respond to anything because no one will know the commenters life story.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#632

Post by rayiner »

mythhouse wrote: post #629
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know me, writing about high caste and whatnot. I remember having $30 in the bank, sleeping in my car in Detroit, and being awakened by gunshots near Wayne State Univ. The reason I'm grateful for what we have is that I'll never forget those days. I forgive you since you wrote out of ignorance.

I apologize for "high caste" assumption . you didn't address the crux of my comment. You came here with an education and momentum for success which is worth way more than whats in your pockets. Only a minuscule portion of Indian population has that privilege to get that education and immigrate to the states. Do you really belive you got into that tiny tiny population purely by your own hard work. Your comment portray…

What is the value of an Indian education? You overlook the stark difference between rich people in a poor country, and poor people in a rich country. My dad came here with an education, sure. But his village school in Bangladesh had no walls! He had to take a boat to school during monsoon season. That’s what qualified as elite back home at the time.

Add in the fact that affirmative action isn’t about poor people. There are vanishingly few kids at Harvard who grew up in the projects in NYC. You’re comparing two groups of people who are comfortably middle class based on their grandfather’s status.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#633

Post by Jetrel »

rr808 wrote: post #492
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

> Is it fair to penalize my son for working hard and being an excellent student? No its not fair which is why its controversial. The real problem is that famous schools are too prestigious right now and there aren't enough of them. Perhaps over time the newer schools who accept all the smart, hardworking students will become recognized for having the best grads.

At this point, I don't think much of famous schools, and might even find them a -minus- on hiring criterion. I'd be much more likely to hire someone from a tier-2 school who doesn't have any of the negative baggage — the wealth and "connections" are kind of a big risk factor to my mind.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#634

Post by mythhouse »

Dreako wrote: post #614
mythhouse wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

>You had the momentum generations of high caste privilege and high caste education focused culture in India that let you achieve that. still not a reasonable justification to misdirect talented individuals to mediocre colleges and waste their potential. On a long term, this negatively affects scientific progress, and indirectly the national security.

> still not a reasonable justification to misdirect talented individuals to mediocre colleges and waste their potential.

yes agreed.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#635

Post by mythhouse »

maslam wrote: post #607
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know me, writing about high caste and whatnot. I remember having $30 in the bank, sleeping in my car in Detroit, and being awakened by gunshots near Wayne State Univ. The reason I'm grateful for what we have is that I'll never forget those days. I forgive you since you wrote out of ignorance.

Well written and kind response. Thank you for doing this. We could use a bit more of this on HN.

> The 'high' or 'dominant' castes make up more that more than 90% of Indian migrants as per a study in 2016.

> The backward castes of South Asia, known as Dalits, form 1.5% of all Indian immigrants to the United States

Calling me ignorant and a passive aggressive "forgive you" without actually addressing my comment isn't "kind".

GP came here with a stem degree worth millions of dollars in lifetime earnings , NOT $30 in pocket ( which was used as a proof of "not privileged" )

Grossly misrepresenting oneself and denying privilege is not kind.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#636

Post by BoorishBears »

ipaddr wrote: post #605
BoorishBears wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't a movie I don't think anyone is seething or really cares. If you think people who assume minorities are diversity hires only exist in movies I'm not sure if you're naïve, clueless, or both. > They may look at you and wonder where you rank, so it forces you to prove yourself I mean you want to tell yourself no one cares, but you also want to say that removing AA forces me to prove myself? (actually that's…

I hope you realize that black people are wondering the same thing about you and how unfair it is to black people. I doubt white people are surprised by other white people can be racist. It is part of mainstream media. What may surprise you is many black people can be racist against other black people too.

> I hope you realize that black people are wondering the same thing about you and how unfair it is to black people.

Interesting... when race hadn't been specified, people wondering that about me was something that only happened in movies.

But the moment I specifically mention white people then "well black people are wondering it too!!!!!"

-

It's almost like you don't care either way as long as you're running interference for the people I'm describing... but why are you doing that?

Again it's not all white people, not even most, assuming minority = diversity hire, and for that reason I initially didn't mention a specific race at all until the first reply I got was someone in full denial mode...

The only people who should feel the need to defend against what I'm saying are people who hold these thoughts. But I'm sure you don't, right?

> I doubt white people are surprised by other white people can be racist.

Yet, again, you felt confident enough to open a comment with patronizing levels of denial at the idea that there are people who think most minorities can't hack it outside of being a token hire... despite page full of comments essentially saying that!

> What may surprise you is many black people can be racist against other black people too.

Please don't project personal naivety and ignorance onto me. YOU are the one who thinks that someone assuming a minority is a diversity hire only happens in movies, not I.

The western world weaponized racism amongst blacks across the continent I'm from and we're still seeing the results today in places like Sudan. Maybe you should brush up on your social studies if you were not aware.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#637

Post by Manuel_D »

howinteresting wrote: post #620
Manuel_D wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would be pretty hard-pressed to argue that women hold "minority of power. For several decades now, women have had higher college enrollment rates. And among the two youngest generations, the gender pay gap has actually reversed with women out-earning men [1]. One could very well make the argument that discrimination favoring women isn't affirmative action, but rather "punching down" so to speak. 1. https://www.th…

Only 30%ish of US state legislators are women. Abortion rights we're just taken away in a number of states. That's a pretty naked display of power.

> Abortion rights we're just taken away in a number of states. That's a pretty naked display of power.

A policy change that women are actually more likely to support than men. If it's a naked display of power, it's power of a group that's actually slightly overrepresented towards women.

1. https://www.vox.com/2019/5/20/18629644/abortion-gender-gap-p...

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#638

Post by andrekandre »

eru wrote: post #545
yunwal wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land meets the definition of capital

Depends on your definition of capital. Of course, you can make any system work with any definitions. It's just more cumbersome to eg state your theorems in cryptography, if your definition of prime numbers includes 1. When talking about factors of production, it is useful to differentiate between labour, capital and land. The main distinguishing factor between capital and land is that land is in fixed supply, but you…

i was going to reply land could be 'fixed capital' but doing some quick wiki shows as you say, land itself may not constitute as "capital" [0]... interesting

  Land itself is not included in the statistical concept of fixed capital, even though it is a fixed asset. The main reason is that land is not regarded as a product (a reproducible good). But the value of land improvements is included in the statistical concept of fixed capital, is regarded as the creation of value-added through production.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_capital

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#639

Post by pknomad »

mythhouse wrote: post #577
RigelKentaurus wrote: post #437

Indian-American father here, living in the Bay Area. My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us and have worked hard to reach where we’re at. We're far from privileged. I am 100% against affirmative action on the basis of race. I think there should be some measure of AA on the basis of economic status. It's quite personal for me this year. My 17-year old is applying to universities to st…

Quoted post unavailable.

There are plenty of other over-represented minorities who can share similar stories.

I'm a Korean American male who migrated to the US as a second grader. I did not know any English and my parents were nail salon workers. I was on state assisted lunch program during middle and high school. While my parents had more than $30, we were certainly in lower socioeconomic class.

However, I was fortunate to have loving parents who wanted good things for me and my brother and I was studious/lucky/smart enough to go to a southern Ivy.

You're not being very kind by simply denying the struggles of over-represented minorities.

Re: American society is so focused on race that it is blind to class

#640

Post by kichimi »

mythhouse wrote: post #631
worik wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> My wife and I came to this country with a few hundred dollars between us >I hate this Strong words. You do not know their struggles, or their stories (beyond one fact and one assumption). Better to use weak words, because you are in a weak position

Yes i can only go by what was written in the comment. > You do not know their struggles, or their stories By your logic no one can respond to anything because no one will know the commenters life story.

Don't be obtuse, you can respond with questions.
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