Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

productivityreport.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 122 posts

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#31

Post by tomrod »

collegeburner wrote: post #22
YokoZar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't. Well, maybe you personally can. But all the actual science says that willpower, sleep hygiene, and sunlight exposure only move the margins a bit for those with inflexible night-time chronotypes. Doing everything "right" is not going to make a 5am natural sleeper into a morning person, it's going to make them into a 3am natural sleeper.

sorry, nothing about our bodies tells me they're this inflexible. i wonder if the "nighttime chronotypes" controlled for things that actually would influence it, like light exposure. regardless, one of the things that worked best for me was rigging a bright light to dawn gradually at a early hour, and cutting off my bright light exposure at a early hour. even if i have a "night chronotype" it's still possible to "tri…

Agreed on caution regarding the phrase "the science." Both social psychology and medicine have been hijacked in recent years by PR firms spinning good sounding submarine articles out of typically underpowered studies. This is a problem. It contributes to the often-discussed replication crisis

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#32

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

version_five wrote: post #12
im-a-baby wrote: post #2

Is it possible that morning people are more productive than people who prefer later times of day. This article is filled with things that are "biased" towards morning people, but didn't actually provide any evidence that this bias is unfounded.

As a counterpoint, I have worked with many "night people" who will work very late into the night on problems, sticking with them until they are solved. I'm a morning person, more by necessity of having other stuff to do in the evening, and I find I end up being more likely to drop a problem without finishing it because I have to leave work. It's all anecdotal, but especially in software, I see how people who have arr…

That seems to run counter to the idea that stopping and walking away rather than just grinding until it's solved is beneficial to problem solving.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#33

Post by tomrod »

karaterobot wrote: post #16

The sun is also fairly biased in this respect, "coincidentally" lighting up the times when morning people like to work, while keeping night owls in the dark, where it is harder to do many jobs. How long will we allow this oppression, I wonder?

A few dozen to a few trillion years, depending.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#34

Post by 29athrowaway »

Wolfenstein98k wrote: post #25

"Morning people" stuff tends to select for conscientiousness. Not a perfect correlation, but a positive one nonetheless. I say this as a serious night owl, and someone who is intellectually conscientious (I love learning and mastering) but traditionally not (it takes me a lot of effort to be organised and disciplined to a reasonable standard).

Tends to select for agreeableness. I deeply care about my work but I don't agree that it has to be done 9 to 5.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#35

Post by brendoelfrendo »

Spooky23 wrote: post #15

I’m sure. It’s pretty obvious. If you have a choice in the matter, early start gives you superpowers and is evidence of discipline. I typically start work at 7:30. I have about 2-2.5 hours of actual, mostly undisturbed productivity. Early in my career my managers thought I was a genius because I knew everything. I did - because I read stuff. Nowadays I’m a boss guy, and I’m fully up to speed and ready to go at my 9:1…

"I do what works for me and people who can't are undisciplined" is exactly the kind of take that has people saying the system is rigged.

"People would be better off focusing on taking care of themselves," well, I would say that getting enough sleep and not caring about when exactly others start their day could be a part of that.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#36

Post by wnevets »

lr4444lr wrote: post #14

Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM. Don't like it? There are lots of industries with nighttime work or extensive travel obligations.

> Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM.

Which do you think came first, jobs that start in the morning or child care that start in the morning?

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#37

Post by ironmagma »

karaterobot wrote: post #16

The sun is also fairly biased in this respect, "coincidentally" lighting up the times when morning people like to work, while keeping night owls in the dark, where it is harder to do many jobs. How long will we allow this oppression, I wonder?

Morning people like to get up long before the sun rises.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#38

Post by orbital223 »

lr4444lr wrote: post #14

Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM. Don't like it? There are lots of industries with nighttime work or extensive travel obligations.

I've seen a lot of research (such as [1]) showing that kids waking up early is actually detrimental to them. I feel the causality goes in pretty much the reverse direction that you're implying: the children are forced to get up early to go to school because their parents need to be free of them early and their parents need to be free of them early because they are forced to be at work early.

[1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#39

Post by superchroma »

im-a-baby wrote: post #2

Is it possible that morning people are more productive than people who prefer later times of day. This article is filled with things that are "biased" towards morning people, but didn't actually provide any evidence that this bias is unfounded.

not the ones I've worked with.

Re: The Workplace Is Rigged to Favor Morning People

#40

Post by shakna »

collegeburner wrote: post #22
YokoZar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't. Well, maybe you personally can. But all the actual science says that willpower, sleep hygiene, and sunlight exposure only move the margins a bit for those with inflexible night-time chronotypes. Doing everything "right" is not going to make a 5am natural sleeper into a morning person, it's going to make them into a 3am natural sleeper.

sorry, nothing about our bodies tells me they're this inflexible. i wonder if the "nighttime chronotypes" controlled for things that actually would influence it, like light exposure. regardless, one of the things that worked best for me was rigging a bright light to dawn gradually at a early hour, and cutting off my bright light exposure at a early hour. even if i have a "night chronotype" it's still possible to "tri…

> tbh i'm a bit suspicious that there are 5am natural sleepers. being basically nocturnal doesn't sound natural or healthy. and given the proven effects of lack of sunlight on mental health that should be fixed regardless of work timing.

Humans used to get up twice a night to do things like stoke a fire. A completely different rhythm of sleep to today's. Night vs day wasn't as much of a thing in the past. Assuming that everyone today should sleep just the once doesn't work as soon as you look at South America or Africa, either.

Post reply on HN