Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…
The question is what is the problem the Chinese government wants to solve? If they want to limit demonstrations and get even more power over the people, lockdowns and not allowing mRNA based vaccines inside the country is a great tool.
Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
171–180 of 307 posts
Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's simply zero covid working better than the best vaccines which will still lead to millions of deaths at PRC scale and with PRC's relatively lower per capita medical infra. Economically it sucks, but despite disruptions PRC exports booming and moving up the value chain until global slowdown due to UKR war, while being huge producer + cheap RU energy + reserves = slower growth + low inflation, and PRC is still doin…
>It's simply zero covid working better than the best vaccines Based on one metric. But ultimately it's self defeating. If you flush the economy down the toilet then there isn't the money for clean water, or hospitals etc. Further zero flu works better than the vaccine. Do you want to stop the world until every disease is eradicated. Lockdowns were never sustainable, in the context of a modern economy. It's a question…
Millions of dead, and 100s of millions taken out of workforce for ~2 weeks during infection, possibly multiple times, possibly with long covid effects for years after, or we're coming up on winter where immunity weakest. It's far from clear vaccines isn't the worst option short term (0-3 years).
>flush the economy down the toilet
I mean sure? Except with confluence of global factors PRC economy, while underperforming is still outperforming most of western countries, as stated above. Hence status quo is currently sustainable, there is less pressure to deliver economically when everyone else is sinking. Obviously sustainable not long term, but I can easily see another year or two, especially with global slow down. The broader point being, all the western MSM reporting on PRC wrecking itself economically is avoiding the fact that it's not wrecking itself as much as most developing countries with RU sanctions, or dealing with US dollar, and US dealing with end of cheap money. Zero covid + three red lines on real estate + tech crack down, etc all deliberate policy choices are not as devasting as 10% inflation or end of cheap credit causing housing sales + tech valuations to crash like in PRC. It's not world ending, PRC is collapsing stuff.
>Do you want to stop the world until every disease is eradicated
No I think PRC wants to stop this specific disease that has demonstrably kills many people with linger side effects even in wealthy countries with access to better health care.
E: posting rate limited so @benj111
>So I don't even know what figures you are working with
Studies conservatively extrapolating TW/SKR post living with covid + mRNA numbers to PRC with modifier for lower per capital med care access. I don't know what figures you are working with to conclude ~3M would get covid when it will be 100s of millions since no vaccine prevent spread and majority of pop have no natural immunity. Estimates from scientists who actually crunched the numbers: a few million dead, significant % of which due to overhelming hospital infra.
1. Millions of dead (conservative estimate is ~2+) is still factually a lot of dead to deal with. If that can be avoided with accepted costs (which I'm arguing, currently is) then why not.
2. It's worse in that it comes with millions of dead bodies and at least 10s of millions long covid. Maybe zero covid is sunk cost and those figures are inevitable, but still no compelling reason for lifting short term.
3. Covid = flu? Are linger side effects of flu as well understood as covid? Annual influenza deaths is fraction of covid deaths. Extrapolating from US annual flu deaths, in PRC, influenza would kill ~100,000 per year vs again millions of covid deaths in same period. Like if PRC can get away with only 500k hospitalizations, Xi could personally go smother each covid ICU patient and still spin it as a win.
Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
CCP don’t want to lead the world. CCP needs to lead China through all means necessary and global trade is necessary for that.
“ In his three-and-a-half-hour political report to the Party’s 2,300 top officials, Xi laid out a vision for China to lead the world in everything from science and technology, to modern weaponry and military might, to providing a model of economic development and governance for other countries to follow.” https://apcoworldwide.com/blog/xi-jinpings-new-era-of-global...
"Leading the world in science and technology" means "having more advanced science and technology than the rest of the world"; and even "providing a model" means, "letting people copy it if they feel like it". That's all completely about China.
When people talking about the US leading the world, it's more about guidance and influence over coordinated action; NATO, climate change, IMF, WHO, etc. That's something China as a country has never been particularly interested in.
Imagine, for instance, China trying to arrange sanctions in response to something. They're not even close to having that kind of influence, and they're not particularly trying.
Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
The question is what is the problem the Chinese government wants to solve? If they want to limit demonstrations and get even more power over the people, lockdowns and not allowing mRNA based vaccines inside the country is a great tool.
We talk about someone with serious self-confidence and self-esteem issues, he made Winnie the Pooh illegal after all, on his way to become de-facto dictator of China. So yes, I'd say more power over the people is exactly what Chinese leadership wants. That they ruin the economy over it, well, all totalitarian regimes learned that part the hard way sooner or later.
Now find me the exact Chinese legal doc that bans Winnie the Pooh.
Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
#175Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…
Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
#176Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lockdowns certainly can stop geometric rise of an infection and it can make sense if you don't want to have people who might have been saved dying in hospital corridors due to lack of capacity but IMHO it doesn't make any sense whatsoever as a long term solution if the lockdown is not globally coordinated to eradicate the microbe at once. If the lockdown is not global, it will keep coming back. That's why I wonder wh…
> That's why I wonder what China is trying to achieve here. Most likely explanation: Population/unrest control. If you can randomly shut down parts of the country for the pretend reason of a plague, you can stop unrest from rising. Do shut down small areas randomly for maximum fear and effect. Remember the Hong Kong protests?
Perhaps the authority was concerned the unproductive unrest would go down like Libya, Syria, Egypt, Ukraine without and endstate better than how things were before the young and impressionable took to the street.
Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
#177Also, Apple: Chinese workers flee Covid lockdown at iPhone factory https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63447755 . Elsewhere in India, Apple is up its game. India's Tata to add Up to 45,000 woman workers at iPhone parts plant to deal with the shortage of parts created by zero lockdown policy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-01/india-s-t... . More and more stuff is moving to other parts of Asia. So…
The question is what is the problem the Chinese government wants to solve? If they want to limit demonstrations and get even more power over the people, lockdowns and not allowing mRNA based vaccines inside the country is a great tool.
Jinping isn't pulling the strings. Mouse Tse-Tung is behind this.
Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
#178They're still able to have fun there. Rides continue to work :) On the other side, in some parts of Europe there's a discussion to let the infected go to work (even with symptoms and of course, if one's feeling capable of work) - but, still, go to work with other infected/work with infected. I can understand that with so high density in people even one infection can lead to big massive spreads and thus to overloaded…
Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
#179Re: Shanghai Disney shuts: Visitors unable to leave without negative Covid test
#180Quoted post unavailable.
I feel like we know about all-cause mortality and CE/MFS relabeled long COVID rising in anyone who had COVID, but just choose not to care. Since there are some promising developments in treating CE/MFS now, I'll continue trying to not get infected, though it is getting less easy with seemingly nobody left to give a shit.
Genuinely curious, which one would that be?