Live data from Hacker News

As last module docks, China completes its space station

nytimes.com

291–300 of 401 posts

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflammable?

Not an autoantonym; that word only has one meaning. Its problem is that it appears to mean the opposite of what it means, not that it has two contradictory meanings.

“The mighty sequoia, protected by thick bark and with its foliage typically high above the flames, was once considered nearly inflammable.” — Brian Melley, Anchorage Daily News, 23 July 2022

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#292

Does anyone know to what extent China has advanced the state of the Soviet technology that they have (I assume) licensed? I have been to the Russian Star City training facility, Baikonur Cosmodrome and been in the full-size Mir training module and the Chinese station components look very similar. I am sure getting good information is difficult, but perhaps someone here has some more info.

Some of the features I know from the Chinese space station - Solar panels smaller in area than ISS but produces similar amount of power, indicating much more efficient solar panels - Ion thrusters to keep space in orbit - Automated docking of cargo and crew capsule. Semi-automated docking of large station components like the 23ton labs - A robotic arm similar to ISS that walk along the joint points on the station. It…

Sanctions on parts for particular purposes are trivial to bypass, you just buy the parts abroad or for a different purpose. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to go as indigenous as possible to reduce dependency on foreign components. They've definitely made impressive advances in the last decade or so.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the features I know from the Chinese space station - Solar panels smaller in area than ISS but produces similar amount of power, indicating much more efficient solar panels - Ion thrusters to keep space in orbit - Automated docking of cargo and crew capsule. Semi-automated docking of large station components like the 23ton labs - A robotic arm similar to ISS that walk along the joint points on the station. It…

> It will operate a space telescope; telescope can dock with the station for servicing and upgrades, and equipment uploaded by regular space station cargo ship. The co-orbit strategy is excellent, a short trip for repairs and easy to fit into existing schedules if something goes wrong. It's no James Webb but was never intended to be, about the same size as Hubble but with 400x the field of view. Guessing it will be c…

IIRC there were such plans for Space Statio Alpha, ISS or even the European space station plans - it just never got funded in the end.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is not a high-tech nation. There is a thin patina of bling-bling but underneath they have big trouble between corruption and nobody else trusting them. China has lots of money (for now...) so they can throw a lot of resources at the problem. In China, quick public successes always take precedence over doing it right.

Your view of China is 10 years behind reality. Corruption was a huge problem, it is still somewhat of a problem, but corruption has reduced significantly and continues to reduce. As for "nobody else trusting them": based on what evidence? Foreign investment into China is at an all-time high. Recent research has shown that while sentiments about China has become much more negative in the west (and its allies such as S…

The ISS collaborators have banned Chinese astronauts. The system is a dictatorship, Xi Jinping has a bigger personality course than Mao. The real estate industry is a mess, mostly because of corruption. "Tofu" projects are rampant. The High Speed rail is too expensive and has the same "Tofu" construction problem (=corruption).

Corruption is still a major problem and there is no signs it has gotten better. African Swine Flu as an example can't be contained because that would need unbribeable enforcement. No-Covid only works (in the enforcement sense) because of draconian penalties. Cronyism is an epidemic disease in itself, you can't advance in China, no matter your qualifications, if you aren't highly connected, and most aren't.

Yes, I'm speaking in broad terms. But I did predict a glass ceiling years ago, because the lack of openness means terrible risk management and sophisticated risk management is crucial for sustained exponential. It has finally happened, growth in China shrank after Covid and the recovery is worse than in the rest of the world.

If you need a reason not to trust China look at what happened to Hong Kong with all the promises made by CCP leadership. Look at the CCP attempts to shape policy, including in western universities. Look at the genocide against the Uyghurs. Look at the issue of organ harvesting, which is partly propaganda and partly the CCP itself hinders any attempts to actually disprove the allegations with their lack of transparency. I am forced to consider the CCP as evil-doers in the same order of magnitude as Nazi Germany. And that is before they try and retake Taiwan, which will be an unbelievably bloody business.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#295
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once parity is reached, China cuts collaboration agreements and keeps further advancements within China I'd like to see sources backing up this claim. Huawei for example has 5G patents and research centers outside China. Hualong-1 nuclear plants are exported abroad. Seeing that China is big on business and making money, it makes no sense to keep technology for yourself. There's so much money to be made by selling t…

1. backdoored surveillance 2. belt and road

As odious as that technology is, as far as I know China is a major supplier of surveillance technology to the world's authoritarian governments.

Belt and Road is an international infrastructure investment (and direct construction) project, not sure how its related to technology. It's also no different from all other nations' international aid programs, in that it both helps the receiving nation and makes them indebted to the originator.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#296
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely hard to join large structures airtight, with joints being stronger than the material itself. Soviet, and Russian spacecraft, and modules were traditionally made with extremely uneconomical method of machining the vessel from a single giant piece of aluminium to not to worry about joints, and their strength under space conditions.

The difficulty is not about joining large structures airtight. otherwise we would have trouble with building commercial aircraft. the problem is when you want to make something out from the absolute minimim weight possible due to economy of putting things into space, then you can't do with any connections whatsoever. The pressure of -1 bar isn't particularly challenging engineering wise.

Jet airliners are not airtight, nor they deal with 1 bar of pressure difference.

In space, you have to make it airtight with most rubbers drying our, and constant intense thermal cycling.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#297
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll remain expensive if only countries are launching things. If commercial space launches continue to pick up steam it will get cheaper.

Nation states are the biggest customers in any case. And there is blurry line between what is a "commercial" offering.

If launches have nation state level prices then of course the only entities that could afford them would be nation states for the most part.

Right now I'm pretty sure Starlink is the biggest customer of a private space launch company. Yes I know it's pretty much the same company but look at the other satellite internet providers that are also using SpaceX: Viasat, Echostar (Hughesnet), Iridium, Inmarsat, Intelsat, Globalstar. That's most of the providers that are out there. This goes hand in hand with commercial space launch, as launches become cheaper and more available the share paid for by private business will increase. This is a good thing! Don't you want a college or even a high school to be able to afford to put a small satellite in orbit to do simple experiments? The only way people are going to get interested in space exploration again is if they themselves can actually do things in space, in person or remotely.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an autoantonym; that word only has one meaning. Its problem is that it appears to mean the opposite of what it means, not that it has two contradictory meanings.

“The mighty sequoia, protected by thick bark and with its foliage typically high above the flames, was once considered nearly inflammable.” — Brian Melley, Anchorage Daily News, 23 July 2022

That’s just misuse of the word.

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little more nuanced than being a traitor to science given China's strategy in regards to acquisition of scientific research and technology. China doesn't collaborate, it just takes until it reaches scientific and technological parity. Once parity is reached, China cuts collaboration agreements and keeps further advancements within China.

> Once parity is reached, China cuts collaboration agreements and keeps further advancements within China Any such actual event happening? I have heard this stated repeatedly, but my Google search reveals no actual reporting, other than the ones where the foreign party voluntarily exited or being forced aware from their own political pressure (that is not from Chinese side).

[deleted]

Re: As last module docks, China completes its space station

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a little more nuanced than being a traitor to science given China's strategy in regards to acquisition of scientific research and technology. China doesn't collaborate, it just takes until it reaches scientific and technological parity. Once parity is reached, China cuts collaboration agreements and keeps further advancements within China.

> Once parity is reached, China cuts collaboration agreements and keeps further advancements within China I'd like to see sources backing up this claim. Huawei for example has 5G patents and research centers outside China. Hualong-1 nuclear plants are exported abroad. Seeing that China is big on business and making money, it makes no sense to keep technology for yourself. There's so much money to be made by selling t…

Just one of many examples: The WIV BSL-4 lab in Wuhan was built as a French-Chinese cooperation (modeled after a similar lab in Lyon, France) with the explicit goal to do joint experiments. But once it was built, the French were kicked out.
Post reply on HN