Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

NASA finds super-emitters of methane

smithsonianmag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 387 posts

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#91

Post by xmonkee »

Alupis wrote: post #62
stetrain wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that shouldn't prevent us from implementing it where we can first.

Not if all your efforts are wasted because other nations won't follow in-step or do not care. This isn't grade school were trying your hardest gets you an 'A' for the day... in reality trying your hardest and failing is still failure. The US could do all the magical things and net zero emissions next year and it won't matter one bit. That's just reality... without a globally concerted effort, it's all just waste. But…

"The United States accounts for only about five percent of global population, but is responsible for 30 percent of global energy use and 28 percent of carbon emissions."

https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/u.s.-leads-in-greenhouse-...

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#92

Post by chitowneats »

neves wrote: post #87
reillyse wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cynical me thinks that if NASA tried to get funding for a project that could detect large scale methane plumes which might be used against the oil and gas industry they might just not be able to get that funding.

Cynical me is always impressed in how much funding goes to find emitters outside the develop world: > "...emit methane at high rates span central Asia, the Middle East and the southwestern United States. By finding these sites from space, the satellite is bringing an important perspective to climate accountability," USA could close all of its coal mines with the same money spent in emergency Covid vaccines

> USA could close all of its coal mines with the same money spent in emergency Covid vaccines

Have we not recently been reminded that the true cost of reducing domestic energy production is much higher than the mere bottom line estimate of shuttering the production facilities?

Germany and France might like a word. With Ukraine slowly shaking their heads in the background.

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#93

Post by NegativeLatency »

jvanderbot wrote: post #59
possiblelion wrote: post #45

So - looking at this it seems Turkmenistan [a repressive, North Korea style dictatorship] is destroying our climate system at an order of magnitude faster than anyone else. I'm well aware of the legacy that Iraq/Afghanistan have left in terms of international interventions into other countries; but if it is our common future on the balance, shouldn't we do something? Something more than just politely asking to stop?

I've often imagined a dystopian future, hotter world where bombs are dropped on unauthorized coal / cement plants to prevent more sea level rise / super hurricanes, rendering those with no other options into partisan stone-age tribes.

You might enjoy this book which features similar events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ministry_for_the_Future

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#94

Post by lazide »

themitigating wrote: post #77
lazide wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck doing that on renewables and positive vibes!

We can sacrifice for the greater good.

That ‘we’ sure is carrying a lot of weight. From the context of this thread, it seems likely most of the sacrifice would be from folks in Turkmenistan, who would be told to change at the point of a gun no? Likely leading to a non trivial death count from violence or starvation.

I’m pretty sure you didn’t ask them if they were Ok with that sacrifice.

To quote C.S. Lewis - “ Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth.”

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#95

Post by s1artibartfast »

Georgelemental wrote: post #19
s1artibartfast wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At which time it turns into CO2 which stays around longer, and water which I believe is a more potent greenhouse gas than either

Water falls to the earth as rain

Something like 90 or 95% of the greenhouse effect is from water vapor. The only reason we really care about atmospheric CO2 is because we think that it triggers more atmospheric water which is the real driver of global temperature change.

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#96

Post by themitigating »

lazide wrote: post #94
themitigating wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can sacrifice for the greater good.

That ‘we’ sure is carrying a lot of weight. From the context of this thread, it seems likely most of the sacrifice would be from folks in Turkmenistan, who would be told to change at the point of a gun no? Likely leading to a non trivial death count from violence or starvation. I’m pretty sure you didn’t ask them if they were Ok with that sacrifice. To quote C.S. Lewis - “ Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for th…

In a democracy the population is responsible for voting in the government.

In a dictatorship the population is responsible for not overthrowing the government.

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#97

Post by anonymous_sorry »

Alupis wrote: post #62
stetrain wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but that shouldn't prevent us from implementing it where we can first.

Not if all your efforts are wasted because other nations won't follow in-step or do not care. This isn't grade school were trying your hardest gets you an 'A' for the day... in reality trying your hardest and failing is still failure. The US could do all the magical things and net zero emissions next year and it won't matter one bit. That's just reality... without a globally concerted effort, it's all just waste. But…

To me the obvious solution seems like it would be to impose targeted tariffs on imports from countries that do not act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, alongside taxes on domestic emissions.

Does this happen? What are the difficulties with it?

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#98

Post by Alupis »

hackerlight wrote: post #90
Alupis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if all your efforts are wasted because other nations won't follow in-step or do not care. This isn't grade school were trying your hardest gets you an 'A' for the day... in reality trying your hardest and failing is still failure. The US could do all the magical things and net zero emissions next year and it won't matter one bit. That's just reality... without a globally concerted effort, it's all just waste. But…

Nirvana fallacy. Your efforts aren't wasted if others don't follow suit. A partial solution is better than no solution. At the least you're buying the world a few extra years to figure it out. Also, being the leader makes it easier for other countries to follow suit. Every country has a large bloc of cynical reactionaries within their borders pointing their fingers and saying "why would we do anything if other countr…

The "problem" countries are not going to start setting up wind farms just because the US can do it. These countries are burning coal for a reason... it's exceedingly cheap.

Make something else exceedingly cheap and they will use it. Anything else is just a distraction and made to make you feel good at night while not accomplishing anything significant.

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#99

Post by pstuart »

jiggyjace wrote: post #64
idiotsecant wrote: post #36

Another example of why we need the 'regulation' that is so demonized.

'Regulation' is not a solution for countries that do not answer to the morals of the West, such as Turkmenistan, China, or Russia. Regulation should be demonized, for many situations it ends up being a hammer to a screw.

There's always leading by example, as well as incentivizing via aid.

This is not to dismiss the challenge, just that we shouldn't avoid hard problems just because they're hard.

Re: NASA finds super-emitters of methane

#100

Post by Alupis »

anonymous_sorry wrote: post #97
Alupis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if all your efforts are wasted because other nations won't follow in-step or do not care. This isn't grade school were trying your hardest gets you an 'A' for the day... in reality trying your hardest and failing is still failure. The US could do all the magical things and net zero emissions next year and it won't matter one bit. That's just reality... without a globally concerted effort, it's all just waste. But…

To me the obvious solution seems like it would be to impose targeted tariffs on imports from countries that do not act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, alongside taxes on domestic emissions. Does this happen? What are the difficulties with it?

The countries producing majority of the world's emissions are doing so because they are using the cheapest forms of energy production available - not because they are evil doers or something nefarious.

The only way to convince these nations to "go green" is to make green energy cheaper than the alternatives. Tariffing goods from these nations will not have the desired impact - the nation still needs cheap energy production and will not stop just because the US made their goods more expensive for it's own citizens.

Post reply on HN