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Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

blog.alexellis.io

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Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#61

Post by trelane »

pjmlp wrote: post #51
bayindirh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trusting your experience, can you please give me examples to OEMs which support Linux on their customer accessible hardware by default for the last two decades, and can you also detail on which devices we run Linux mainly for our daily needs, and what these devices are designed and certified for? Of course not every developer is a UNIX developer. I don't expect that. But, I just need an example for a device which I c…

Tuxedo and System 76 come to mind, as lots of local OEM vendors. My Asus 1215B netbook for travel purposes has been sold with Linux on it.

> My Asus 1215B netbook for travel purposes has been sold with Linux on it.

Too soon! I miss the netbook days. Too bad Microsoft killed them.

Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#62

Post by wilsonnb3 »

jaywalk wrote: post #58
bayindirh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not providing the device tree for including in the Linux kernel is breaking by negligence in my book. Looks like ARM and RISC-V will be the next open frontier for Linux in the near future. x86 is going to the way of intense lock down in an accelerating pace. ARM also supports these technologies, but at least it'll be more accessible and more diverse, I hope.

Why would they do anything to actively support Linux on a device that is explicitly meant for developing Windows applications on ARM? They allow Secure Boot to be disabled, which is nice. Expecting anything more from them is absurd.

Because according to Microsoft themselves, "Microsoft ♥ Linux"

Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#63

Post by pjmlp »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #54
pjmlp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something says it is for developers, does it have to revolve around UNIX clones as if there aren't any other kind of developers?

It's not about unix, it's about running anything and everything that you want.

You can build your own PC then.

Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#64

Post by pjmlp »

trelane wrote: post #61
pjmlp wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tuxedo and System 76 come to mind, as lots of local OEM vendors. My Asus 1215B netbook for travel purposes has been sold with Linux on it.

> My Asus 1215B netbook for travel purposes has been sold with Linux on it. Too soon! I miss the netbook days. Too bad Microsoft killed them.

Actually the tablets and Chromebooks, killed them, not the selling XP licenses at discount prices.

Google OSes cost zero, with a proper experience and a store Joe and Jane care about.

Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#65

Post by jaywalk »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #62
jaywalk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they do anything to actively support Linux on a device that is explicitly meant for developing Windows applications on ARM? They allow Secure Boot to be disabled, which is nice. Expecting anything more from them is absurd.

Because according to Microsoft themselves, "Microsoft ♥ Linux"

Ok, sure. Does that mean they have to support Linux on every device they put out? Why not complain that they don't support Linux on Xbox?

Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#66

Post by com2kid »

trelane wrote: post #60
pjmlp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something says it is for developers, does it have to revolve around UNIX clones as if there aren't any other kind of developers?

> does it have to revolve around UNIX clones as if there aren't any other kind of developers? The irony of saying this in the context of Windows is thick enough one could cut it and use it to build a sizeable home.

Windows was the dominant operating system for developers for nearly two decades.

Up until about a decade ago, Microsoft arguably made the world's only good IDE. (ignoring some relics from the 80s!)

It isn't as if Windows is some developer wasteland.

Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#67

Post by pjmlp »

bitwize wrote: post #59
flyinghamster wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Locking Linux behind WSL2 is Microsoft's dream, and being oblivious about it won't help us in the future. > People get crazy when people point out that Microsoft is deprecating it's 3rd party CA slowly, or making secure boot permanent step by step I've long thought WSL and friends were a stalking horse for precisely the sort of locked-down environment I hate, and I've been expecting this incremental approach ever s…

About 10 or 12 years ago I said that the future of Linux on the desktop is as a VM running under a Windows hypervisor. It took longer than expected but that future is within sight.

Actually that is how long I have been using VMware and Virtual Box to run it, the exception being my aging netbook.

Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#68

Post by alexellisuk »

zozbot234 wrote: post #19

Tl;dr: it boots OpenBSD successfully already, so getting Linux to run can't be that hard even though mainline support is obviously not here yet. Someone will figure out how to boot a Linux kernel on this, probably the PostmarketOS or Asahi folks.

Mainline support is available, we are missing the device tree blobs for this specific unit. OpenBSD AFAIK boots in APCI mode so doesn't require them.

Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#69

Post by rcarmo »

schaefer wrote: post #36

The article mentions trying USB boot media known to work with the Lenovo x13s… I wish there was a reference to that. I’d love to read an up to date report on how hardware support for that arm laptop is coming along.

A friend of mine has one. Have yet to get my hands on it, but he reports great battery life and calls it "very snappy". Then again, he is not a developer (he's a salesperson in the medical industry), so YMMV.

Re: Attempting Linux on Microsoft Dev Kit 2023

#70

Post by rcarmo »

rcarmo wrote: post #6

I'm a bit biased here, but trying this kind of thing on a machine that is both completely new and designed to be a Windows development kit has somewhat predictable outcomes. (I suspect it will eventually be a click-through process, but to flip the script I don't typically try to run Windows on my Raspberry Pis -- and have reasonable expectations of the outcomes if I do, even with WoR) That said, I would _definitely_…

Since this keeps getting upvoted and downvoted in waves and is thus obviously garnering some attention, allow me to point out that the Khadas Edge 2 is a pretty amazing ARM SBC that runs Ubuntu just fine, and would most certainly have been a much better experience for the OP.

It's on my list of prospective Xmas "self-presents", although I would still need to spend a little more to match the devkit specs (although it is available in a "pro" config that is closer).

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