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Systemd 252

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Re: Systemd 252

#81

Post by teddyh »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #72
teddyh wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

systemd-logind(1) manages user sessions. If you want to replicate the functionality of what “nohup” used to give you, I am reliably informed that “systemd-run --scope --user $command” does the right thing. Or, you can enable it permanently for your user with “loginctl enable-linger”.

When I see “manages user sessions,” I don’t know what that phrase means. What is a “session” (again assuming not a POSIX session leader) and what are we concretely doing to “manage” it? Is there a guide that explains the bare minimum that typical end users need to know to stop systemd from breaking use cases that have worked for years? I would never expect a non-sysadmin to have read the “systemd-run” or “loginctl” m…

I mentioned systemd-logind. Its manual page systemd-logind(8) states¹: “See sd-login(3)² for information about the basic concepts of logind such as users, sessions and seats.”.

1. https://manpages.debian.org/stable/systemd/systemd-logind.8....

2. https://manpages.debian.org/bullseye/libsystemd-dev/sd-login...

Re: Systemd 252

#82

Post by twic »

stevefan1999 wrote: post #71

I just never get why people always flame on systemd. Sure, it's kinda bloated in the sense that it is "battery included" just like Python, but the intention to have a stable init with great system and service management is very good from both a DevOps and Sysadmin perspective. It is at least much better than writing your adhoc init.d script that may not guarantee to run on other Linux distros.

I think it's because there were other alternatives that solved the same important problems, while being much simpler and less intrusive.

Re: Systemd 252

#83

Post by mariusor »

k_bx wrote: post #59

I love systemd for everything except its cron replacement, somehow it's a real mess. Yet I desperately want something more modern to play with journald well. Any advice?

I think generally people view timers as a net superior alternative to crons: they have better logic for the times, they support dependencies, they support randomized delays, etc. Why do you think they're a real mess?

Re: Systemd 252

#84

Post by twic »

panick21_ wrote: post #32
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #31

Is the project a new site sponsor or something? :-) I get it that systemd has some benefits - faster startup, more reliable production administration. And at the same time it's not everyone's cup of tea - for example, many believe that the strength of UNIX is many simple and interchangable commands rather than big monolithic code base controlled by a single team. Anyway, there have been 251 previous versions of syste…

You do understand how Hacker News voting works?

Yes. Clicks on the voting arrows go to the HN backend, which routes them to systemd-votecount, which then generates article rankings and publishes them over D-Bus, from which the backend picks them up and renders them as HTML.

Re: Systemd 252

#85

Post by blueflow »

stevefan1999 wrote: post #73
Scarbutt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alpine linux seems to be doing fine without systemd.

But I almost never saw anyone using Alpine as the infrastructural distro for their, say like desktop environment akin to Manjaro and Fedora. Without systemd, bootstrapping a complicated desktop environment would be a hot mess. Well, maybe you would say Alpine is not intented to run heavyweight stuff like that and is mostly focused on security and containers. That's exactly what Alpine is, the OpenBSD of Linux distros…

Now you do! I'm writing you right now from a Alpine Laptop.

> Without systemd, bootstrapping a complicated desktop environment would be a hot mess

startx on tty1, i3 being launched from xinitrc. Same procedure that i use on any other distro or BSD.

Re: Systemd 252

#86

Post by lakomen »

stevefan1999 wrote: post #71

I just never get why people always flame on systemd. Sure, it's kinda bloated in the sense that it is "battery included" just like Python, but the intention to have a stable init with great system and service management is very good from both a DevOps and Sysadmin perspective. It is at least much better than writing your adhoc init.d script that may not guarantee to run on other Linux distros.

The arrogance of Lennart has something to do with it. The way he tends to disregard real bugs as not a bug, since he and his production are perfect and always right. Numerous cases of that. Then the security aspect of a jack of all trades process running as one that controls every other process. Reading logs after a panic and rebooting to check them is a pain in the ass without journald on the chrooting system, reading and parsing logs the same.

There are many reasons to not like systemd and the creator, who incidently after leaving the GNU/Linux is now working for the same company that sought to destroy it, Microsoft.

The above doesn't represent my personal opinion, it's a representation of what reasons people might have.

Re: Systemd 252

#87

Post by Dah00n »

panick21_ wrote: post #76
stopdropnhotpot wrote: post #22

systemd is fine for single user systems and perhaps verts, but I would never deploy it on a server. The deprecation of cgroup v1 is a welcome change. It's come a long way, but it still has a very long way to go.

Facebook runs lots of Systemd but I'm sure on your infrastructure you couldn't run it.

Facebook is a Bad Example on stability at scale..

Re: Systemd 252

#88

Post by lakomen »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #35
stopdropnhotpot wrote: post #22

systemd is fine for single user systems and perhaps verts, but I would never deploy it on a server. The deprecation of cgroup v1 is a welcome change. It's come a long way, but it still has a very long way to go.

Quoted post unavailable.

That is such a bullshit comment, entitled and ignorant, genZ type of stupid

Re: Systemd 252

#89

Post by blueflow »

xdfgh1112 wrote: post #14
KingOfCoders wrote: post #12

I love systemd for deploying Golang, especially the security features, that systemd can own the TCP port for zero downtime deployments of the application and restarts of a fail-fast application. It kind of replaced Docker (dockerd) which I've used with deploying Scala and TS.

Hey, someone rediscovered xinetd

I once won a backdoor contest by installing a systemd socket who launched /bin/sh as root. At this point, people don't question why systemd is being bound to some random ports.

Re: Systemd 252

#90

Post by blueflow »

boncho wrote: post #2

Systemd is without doubt one of the most important items of software on a modern Linux today, except perhaps for the Linux kernel itself. It turned the mess of shell scripts and other crap into the rock-solid, foundational system services layer we enjoy nowadays. If we do ever get the year of the Linux Desktop, we will have to thank the authors of systemd for giving us a bedrock of delight to build upon.

"rock-solid".

Right now my mom is nagging me to fix her Ubuntu laptop, which doesn't shutdown anymore because some of the units got messed up. I'm at the verge of telling her to install windows.

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