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Systemd 252

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Re: Systemd 252

#21

Post by Jach »

grepLeigh wrote: post #7
europeanguy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a Linux expert, but I thought that systemd was generally hated?

I've developed a distrust for anyone who hates on systemd in 2022, especially if their rationale is vague dogma like "it does more than 1 thing, it's not Unix-like!" It's usually a signal that the person is not a practioner. Systemd is the most important and well-developed Linux framework, besides the Linux kernel itself.

I don't trust anyone's opinion, for or against, unless they've used alternatives. I've used systemd, I'll probably use it again, and I'll keep hating on it if someone gets me started. Fortunately on my own systems I've been a happy OpenRC user instead.

Re: Systemd 252

#22

Post by stopdropnhotpot »

systemd is fine for single user systems and perhaps verts, but I would never deploy it on a server. The deprecation of cgroup v1 is a welcome change. It's come a long way, but it still has a very long way to go.

Re: Systemd 252

#23

Post by athrun »

xdfgh1112 wrote: post #14
KingOfCoders wrote: post #12

I love systemd for deploying Golang, especially the security features, that systemd can own the TCP port for zero downtime deployments of the application and restarts of a fail-fast application. It kind of replaced Docker (dockerd) which I've used with deploying Scala and TS.

Hey, someone rediscovered xinetd

It's challenging to restart a service without dropping connections with xinetd.

Even more so when the process is misbehaving, has children, and is not exiting cleanly.

Re: Systemd 252

#24

Post by grepLeigh »

Jach wrote: post #21
grepLeigh wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've developed a distrust for anyone who hates on systemd in 2022, especially if their rationale is vague dogma like "it does more than 1 thing, it's not Unix-like!" It's usually a signal that the person is not a practioner. Systemd is the most important and well-developed Linux framework, besides the Linux kernel itself.

I don't trust anyone's opinion, for or against, unless they've used alternatives. I've used systemd, I'll probably use it again, and I'll keep hating on it if someone gets me started. Fortunately on my own systems I've been a happy OpenRC user instead.

My S/O is a Gentoo maintainer so this comes up often in my household!

Re: Systemd 252

#25

Post by Jach »

grepLeigh wrote: post #24
Jach wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't trust anyone's opinion, for or against, unless they've used alternatives. I've used systemd, I'll probably use it again, and I'll keep hating on it if someone gets me started. Fortunately on my own systems I've been a happy OpenRC user instead.

My S/O is a Gentoo maintainer so this comes up often in my household!

As a longtime user I thank your S/O, you're lucky to have them!

Re: Systemd 252

#26

Post by fuckstick »

europeanguy wrote: post #3
boncho wrote: post #2

Systemd is without doubt one of the most important items of software on a modern Linux today, except perhaps for the Linux kernel itself. It turned the mess of shell scripts and other crap into the rock-solid, foundational system services layer we enjoy nowadays. If we do ever get the year of the Linux Desktop, we will have to thank the authors of systemd for giving us a bedrock of delight to build upon.

I'm not a Linux expert, but I thought that systemd was generally hated?

It’s not generally hated. It has a cadre of permacritics that are very vocal and often dramatic, and some of them often pop up in threads such as this one, that is all. It’s especially pathological since there are alternatives - if you hate Lennart, Redhat or whatever, use something else and move on.

Meanwhile millions are using it to get shit done without much drama. It’s been years since I filed a bug on systemd, but that’s what grown ups do when inevitable bugs are encountered, not make themselves and everyone miserable because they deeply integrated some dubious 1970s Unix philosophy into their personality.

Re: Systemd 252

#27

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

klodolph wrote: post #20
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Its a "big" for small docker containers Aside size, last I looked it required a lot of hoop-jumping to get systemd to run inside docker at all.

I think the idea of running systemd inside docker (or vice versa) is a little redundant to begin with—systemd and docker share a number of features.

It's unusual, but there are occasionally times when it's nice to run multiple processes in one container, and a proper service manager would be useful. Usually I see supervisord used for that kind of thing in practice.

Re: Systemd 252

#28

Post by RealStickman_ »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #16
plaguepilled wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it really depends on the context! Some reasons systemd is bad: - Its a "big" for small docker containers (which is part of why a lot of people like Alpine Linux). - It produces binary logs, which might not work with your workflow and is a kind of vendor lock-in if you don't script a binary-to-text script. - the binaries are all a lot bigger in terms if SLOC and in terms of storage space than the solutions…

> Its a "big" for small docker containers Aside size, last I looked it required a lot of hoop-jumping to get systemd to run inside docker at all.

Iirc using systemd in Podman is much easier.

Re: Systemd 252

#29

Post by ruuda »

europeanguy wrote: post #3
boncho wrote: post #2

Systemd is without doubt one of the most important items of software on a modern Linux today, except perhaps for the Linux kernel itself. It turned the mess of shell scripts and other crap into the rock-solid, foundational system services layer we enjoy nowadays. If we do ever get the year of the Linux Desktop, we will have to thank the authors of systemd for giving us a bedrock of delight to build upon.

I'm not a Linux expert, but I thought that systemd was generally hated?

There are two types of software: those that everybody complains about, and those that nobody uses.

Re: Systemd 252

#30

Post by KingOfCoders »

xdfgh1112 wrote: post #14
KingOfCoders wrote: post #12

I love systemd for deploying Golang, especially the security features, that systemd can own the TCP port for zero downtime deployments of the application and restarts of a fail-fast application. It kind of replaced Docker (dockerd) which I've used with deploying Scala and TS.

Hey, someone rediscovered xinetd

Isn't it astonishing? I've been using Linux pre-Slackware with downloading boot.tgz and root.tgz on two floppy drives, wrestled with M4 and sendmail, have been writing internet applications for 35+ years but never used a Linux daemon to manage my applications. You're never too old to learn I guess.
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