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Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

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Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#311
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been doing that in football in Europe forever. I remember a number of old world cup games completely ruined by people running the clock.

In the Euro 2004, Denmark and Sweden would both go on to qualify at Italy's expense if the result of the game was 2-2. Of course, the score ended up being just that towards the end of the game, and then the players on both teams just stood still and passed the ball between themselves running down the last 8 minutes or so of the clock. https://youtu.be/9kgJNL_uuHI

This was much worse (I saw it on TV), and the reason why the last two matches in the qualifiers are played at the same time:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gijón

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#312
post #305
post #56

Reminds me of another example of video-game inspired tactics: Just before he reached the end zone, with 17 seconds remaining, Stokley cut right at 90 degrees and ran across the field. Six seconds drained off the clock before, at last, he meandered across the goal line to score the winning touchdown. For certain football fans, the excitement of a last-minute comeback now commingled with the shock of the familiar: It's…

Sorry, I don't get it: what did he gain by shaving 6 seconds out of the last 17? Please, help me understand!

Now the opposing team gets less time to score and possibly win.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#313
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of all the forms of immortality, my favorite is participating in a competition in such a brilliant, incorrect way that a rule is permanently added just for you. That's precisely why car races are boring these days. Everything is forbidden and over-regulated so there's no space for innovation anymore. Look at F1 and its bloat of regulations.

But in F1 it's exciting because you never know what rules they are gonna enforce this time and for whom. /s Edit: on a more serious note: The regulations are so tight to keep it exciting. Frustratingly, if the regulations are more open, one of the better funded teams will just run away with the best car. That already happened in some seasons, but would be even worse without tight regulations.

> one of the better funded teams will just run away with the best car

There's one way to quickly solve this. Just mass-produce the cars and give everyone the exact same car. Then we will know who is the best racer.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the next step is to remove the drivers and have a more exciting race. I feel like there's a missing league of F1 autonomous driving cars.

I don’t disagree that the racing itself could be more exciting in that scenario, but without the human element, I just don’t think people would stay interested

> I just don’t think people would stay interested

Make fake AI drivers with a backstory and AI-generated faces and stories and people won't see the difference

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can agree that multiplayer isn't forever but all of the longest lasting games are multiplayer and thriving, most because of the competition. WoW, CSGO (very competitive, ~1 million players daily), LoL (competitive).

That has little to do with fun, and everything to do with recurring revenue . Multiplayer aligns itself nicely with subscriptions, in a way singleplayer doesn't. Don't know about current state of WoW, but the other two games you mention, and games like Overwatch or even StarCraft 2, are hollowed out and devoid of substance, because the competitive multiplayer makes everyone focused on meta.

Hey, SC2's still pretty fun. Just look at the sorts of off-meta builds uthermal gets away with: https://www.youtube.com/c/uThermal

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put a more negative way, but perhaps more funny: "Given the opportunity gamers will optimize fun out of a game."

That's only in multiplayer games, which are basically destined to become not fun at all. It's the competition that sucks out the fun. Players optimize for winning, cheaters optimize further more, devs optimize for getting rid of cheaters and for "maximizing engagement" of the rest. In single-player games, given the opportunity, gamers will optimize for all kinds of cheese and hilarity never expected by the designers.…

> That's only in multiplayer games

Certainly not true, it's a game design issue that comes up all the time. Even in the context of casual solo play, players will generally be driven by the very human instincts of risk aversion, resource accumulation, and seeking efficiency. It takes good design to make this behaviour be in line with having fun.

If anything, it's multiplayer environments that are easier to steer towards that, and also allow room for just horsing around.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#317
post #127
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of all the forms of immortality, my favorite is participating in a competition in such a brilliant, incorrect way that a rule is permanently added just for you. That's precisely why car races are boring these days. Everything is forbidden and over-regulated so there's no space for innovation anymore. Look at F1 and its bloat of regulations.

Motorsports are different than other sports because the drivers' lives are under very real risk. A lot of the regulation is to keep the drivers alive. It comes at the expense of excitement but we would all agree it's necessary.

Motorsports are not unique in this regard. John Delamere pioneered the forward somersault long jump technique [0], which was then banned for fear that athletes might break their necks.

[0] https://vault.si.com/vault/1974/07/29/the-flip-that-led-to-a...

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#318
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of all the forms of immortality, my favorite is participating in a competition in such a brilliant, incorrect way that a rule is permanently added just for you. That's precisely why car races are boring these days. Everything is forbidden and over-regulated so there's no space for innovation anymore. Look at F1 and its bloat of regulations.

> That's precisely why car races are boring these days. Everything is forbidden and over-regulated so there's no space for innovation anymore. Look at F1 and its bloat of regulations. Does rally ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDGJoPmR_8U ) count as car racing?

Rally is just going to be another example. As of this year, all the cars are econobox facades over space frames. No trickle-down innovation or 'win on Sunday sell on Monday'.

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#319
post #56

Reminds me of another example of video-game inspired tactics: Just before he reached the end zone, with 17 seconds remaining, Stokley cut right at 90 degrees and ran across the field. Six seconds drained off the clock before, at last, he meandered across the goal line to score the winning touchdown. For certain football fans, the excitement of a last-minute comeback now commingled with the shock of the familiar: It's…

This is really interesting. The incentive to pull off this kind of move, running the clock down a bit, that was already present. But there's a certain social expectation that you won't game the rules so blatantly, so that's a disincentive. What the existence of video games does, is allow people to do things like this in an environment where social expectations and pressure don't really exist. It's like a psychologica…

[deleted]

Re: Nascar driver stuns to qualify for championship with GameCube move

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not too far off from how Darlington and a few other tracks work. If you “ride the cushion” of air between the car and the wall you can drive faster than being a few inches away from the wall or rubbing the wall.

I definitely don't think you want people doing this every race, but you could leave it alone for now and see if that becomes an issue before worrying about it too much. It's possible that now that people know it's a possibility, they'll simply defend the outside line out of the last corner, which could shut it down fairly effectively.

Running the cushion is not what Ross Chastain did. At Darlington and a few other tracks you ride as close as you can to the wall without much more than the occasional tap. If your paint is scraped up but the body panels aren’t bent you did it correctly. Many years ago they used to put 2x4s in the fender walls to protect them but now this requires car control.
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