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NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

nytimes.com

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Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#151

Post by mc32 »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #69
andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

> don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone. As an employee, sounds like not my fuckin problem. I'm not about to go through 3 phone screens, a take-home test, a full-day onsite, etc. just for the privilege to be low-balled or even worse denied. > I think it will be about $X Oh! So looks like it's not that hard to ball-park a number off the top of your head. I don't get this "how the world really w…

I have never had a first interview where the recruiter or TA person could not or would not let me know the salary range.

Would it be nice to know in advance, yes. Is it necessary for me to know in advance so long as I can get it during the fist contact? No.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#152

Post by alistairSH »

andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

Go ask your team lead/CEO/CTO how recruiting works.

LOL. I've never listed a position without knowing the salary range ahead of time. That range comes from our comp/ben team in concert with somebody from finance.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#153

Post by TearsInTheRain »

chadash wrote: post #111
llbeansandrice wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone. As an employee, sounds like not my fuckin problem. I'm not about to go through 3 phone screens, a take-home test, a full-day onsite, etc. just for the privilege to be low-balled or even worse denied. > I think it will be about $X Oh! So looks like it's not that hard to ball-park a number off the top of your head. I don't get this "how the world really w…

> just for the privilege to be low-balled or even worse denied I'm ok being denied. You set the bar and I don't meet it, fair enough... far worse is wasting my time when a simple discussion about salary at the start (at least after the first interview) could have saved us both time.

And you can of course bring it up early on in your calls with the company as well.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#154

Post by KoftaBob »

jstx1 wrote: post #8
spamizbad wrote: post #2

I get why employers would hate this, but overall, wouldn't greater transparency in the labor market drive economic growth by virtue of making the labor market more efficient by doing a better job of connecting skilled, hard-working and motivated employees with employers who can pay more?

By what mechanism does legally enforced transparency make the labor market more efficient?

One of the criteria of a Perfectly Competitive Market is "Perfect Information":

"In economics, perfect information (sometimes referred to as "no hidden information") is a feature of perfect competition. With perfect information in a market, all consumers and producers have complete and instantaneous knowledge of all market prices, their own utility, and own cost functions. "

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#155

Post by barbazoo »

llbeansandrice wrote: post #69
andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

> don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone. As an employee, sounds like not my fuckin problem. I'm not about to go through 3 phone screens, a take-home test, a full-day onsite, etc. just for the privilege to be low-balled or even worse denied. > I think it will be about $X Oh! So looks like it's not that hard to ball-park a number off the top of your head. I don't get this "how the world really w…

> I'm not about to go through 3 phone screens, a take-home test, a full-day onsite, etc. just for the privilege to be low-balled or even worse denied.

Maybe I got lucky but I've always been able to figure out the rough range they were thinking of paying before the first real interview. In case of recruiters, sure, they want to talk to you first and that's 15 minutes you'll never get back.

Personally I just don't move ahead unless I have some signal about salary to not get into that situation.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#156

Post by joe5150 »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #130
joe5150 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law doesn't say you can't offer someone a different job than they applied for.

If I make up the job after meeting the candidate, is that OK?

The question was specifically about hiring for multiple positions at different levels of seniority. If your company is hiring for positions with differentiated responsibilities and expectations for pay, you can advertise multiple jobs and shouldn't have to make anything up.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#157

Post by robertlagrant »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #31
robertlagrant wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they'll hate it. If they know what a prospective employee is making, they can offer a minimal increment on that within their (wide) salary range. Currently, only the employer knows their real budget (and that may change if they get the right candidate) and only the employee knows what they'll move for. Salary negotiation is based on those two secrets. This legislation makes the latter secret public know…

> only the employee knows what they'll move for ... This legislation makes [that] secret public knowledge. Not everyone's motives is the same on this, so it's still secret. Some people will require more than a small bump to move into the risk of an unknown new employer. Also, some people value flexibility (or rigidity), autonomy, etc. more than money - to the point where some people will pass substantial amounts of m…

I totally agree, but the new employer doesn't have to know any of that.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#158

Post by bradleyjg »

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #129
jedberg wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, what if you apply for a role that turns out to be wrong for you based on my assessment of you then I should reject you so you can re-apply for the other role? That's ridiculous. No of course not. You simply offer the better role at the higher salary. Or if they turn out to not be good, you tell them that you are going to deny them this role because they are not qualified, but you'd be happy to offer the lower r…

If the only way to operate realistically is to engage in some form of borderline-compliant workaround then I suggest the entire exercise is ill-conceived.

At least in that case I can read the job descriptions of low, medium, and high before applying. If I don’t know where my salary expectations line up with the company’s job requirements at all there’s a higher chance of wasting my time.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#159

Post by zebnyc »

andrewstuart wrote: post #54

I'm a recruiter. I've known for a long time it drives people nuts that job ads don't have salary, or have a wide salary range. The fact is that many employers don't actually know what they would be willing to pay someone . Until they have met them, assessed them, heard what they salary target is and weighed it up against their skills and experience and calibrated it against the team. The conversation almost always go…

I don't mind if there are certain companies which don't want to list their salary range. However, they also need to be respectful of candidates' time and energy.

Recently I had a company reach out to me and after asking me many questions about my background for an hour, the recruiter asks me, "What is your salary expectation?". I said I would rather not say but would be happy to let them know if their range is acceptable to me. The recruiter rambles a bit about how they recruit from all over the world and then tells me that is not how they operate and I must give a number. I refused and they hung up. Of course it is their prerogative if they don't want to provide the number or need my number up front. But then they can be upfront about it early in the call. They should not waste my time for an hour and drain my energy in the process.

Re: NYC to require salary ranges be included in job postings

#160

Post by robocat »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #77
jakear wrote: post #20

The place I’m applying simply lists: “Software Development (all levels)” and is an open call for engineers. Salary obviously will depend on experience and interview performance. I don’t see why that’s an issue, a corporatized version of this where each company has to split their postings into 8 different categories or risk excluding complete novices/interns that might join for near free or heavy hitters that would ne…

> split their postings into 8 different categories or risk excluding complete novices/interns that might join for near free I've been helping a friend who's just out of school and going through the interview ringer. They've already gone through one round of interviews for a posting like that only to be told after 2 interviews (for an internship) "by all experience levels we actually meant a minimum of 2 years industr…

I recently read a study that found most women give up trying when applying for jobs and promotions, so they miss out.

Similarly, lack of assertiveness: https://medium.com/the-pink/why-women-give-up-their-power-d9...

I hope you can help your friend learn to be more stubborn against failure. I wish I knew what a good training technique might be: I have friends that need help with the same issue (both male and female).

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