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Banned British far-right figures return to Twitter within hours of takeover

theguardian.com

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Re: Banned British far-right figures return to Twitter within hours of takeover

#11

Post by toss1 »

koof wrote: post #4
cbeach wrote: post #2

No one is forcing us to follow these figures on Twitter or vote for their party. Let the party members say what they like within the law. Debunk if it need be, and let adults decide for themselves what the truth is. If authoritarians try to stop us hearing from a political party, they remove our agency. And we don’t like that. Ever heard of the Streisand Effect?

Paradox of tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

^ ^ ^ THIS! ^ ^ ^

The one thing a tolerant society can NOT tolerate is intolerance itself. If allowed to set root, intolerance will take over and destroy the tolerant society. The intolerant will be loud and aggressive, working to silence everyone else. Eventually, it's over.

Just like the fact that people who want to live self-determining lives in a self-governing democracy must be always better armed and prepared than the bullies and autocrats who want to freely plunder and run other lives & societies. If they are not better armed & prepared (either personally or by proxy of police, military, etc.), then the bullies & autocrats will inevitably take over by force at any opportune time.

(See also in economics: The bad money drives out the good, every time.)

Re: Banned British far-right figures return to Twitter within hours of takeover

#12

Post by vinyl7 »

fragmede wrote: post #10
cbeach wrote: post #2

No one is forcing us to follow these figures on Twitter or vote for their party. Let the party members say what they like within the law. Debunk if it need be, and let adults decide for themselves what the truth is. If authoritarians try to stop us hearing from a political party, they remove our agency. And we don’t like that. Ever heard of the Streisand Effect?

Who's gonna do that debunking though? You? For every young man that manages to receive the message that the Holocaust didn't happen and it's all lies, and decides to hear that garbage as gospel; you're volunteering to deprogram each and every one of them? Because that's the issue, the lack of debunking. We couldn't even get people to hear there aren't microchips in the vaccine, or that we've been to the moon. More st…

People hold views, so what? Why can't we just accept that people have differing views, and just agree to disagree? Why do we have to force everyone to have the same belief system? People get angry when religious people proselytize, but other topics are okay to force on people?

I have differing political/social/economic opinions than other people, but I have no desire to force my opinion on other people are make them see things from my point of view, because it's stupid and pointless.

Just point and laugh at the tin-foil-hatter and move on. By seeing them as a legitimate problem, you give them value and authority. But just forgetting it, whatever they say loses all power and value.

Re: Banned British far-right figures return to Twitter within hours of takeover

#13

Post by amadeuspagel »

soared wrote: post #3
cbeach wrote: post #2

No one is forcing us to follow these figures on Twitter or vote for their party. Let the party members say what they like within the law. Debunk if it need be, and let adults decide for themselves what the truth is. If authoritarians try to stop us hearing from a political party, they remove our agency. And we don’t like that. Ever heard of the Streisand Effect?

This is one side of the argument. The other is that with social media, echo chambers, algos, etc we face a new risk of extremism that can cause cases like below. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_m... I haven’t really defined my opinion on this topic one way or the other. But in general I look at seatbelts in cars - they are required by law because if not, many people would save the $500 to b…

Imagine your comment, but with the link replaced with this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shootin...

What would your reaction to this be? Would you maybe be a bit concerned about how easy it might be to claim that some speech you see as important in some way leads to violence, and must therefore be censored?

Re: Banned British far-right figures return to Twitter within hours of takeover

#15

Post by amadeuspagel »

prirun wrote: post #7
cbeach wrote: post #2

No one is forcing us to follow these figures on Twitter or vote for their party. Let the party members say what they like within the law. Debunk if it need be, and let adults decide for themselves what the truth is. If authoritarians try to stop us hearing from a political party, they remove our agency. And we don’t like that. Ever heard of the Streisand Effect?

Ever heard of the Illusory truth effect? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect

Perhaps something that should make you more skeptical of your beliefs, in the name of which you want to censor other beliefs.

Re: Banned British far-right figures return to Twitter within hours of takeover

#16

Post by brnt »

cbeach wrote: post #2

No one is forcing us to follow these figures on Twitter or vote for their party. Let the party members say what they like within the law. Debunk if it need be, and let adults decide for themselves what the truth is. If authoritarians try to stop us hearing from a political party, they remove our agency. And we don’t like that. Ever heard of the Streisand Effect?

Advertisers force us to eat shite, that's the business model. Microtargetting means (relatively) micro budgets are all that's needed to reach particular audiences. In practice, it's all about finding the cheapest way to amplify, that's the business model of particular strains of politics.

Memes meant something before the internet, and rapid distribution on so called social media means well engineered strains will spread fast and far on small budgets; mostly others' energy.

There is nothing good about this. There are no upsides to some free speech being able to drown out other free speech. I wish people would read a tiny bit of literature on the subject and stop spreading that incorrect and harmful meme.

Re: Banned British far-right figures return to Twitter within hours of takeover

#17

Post by koof »

atdrummond wrote: post #9
koof wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradox of tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

The paradox is used as an argumentative device for judging whether a tolerant and democratic society is possible (with liberal institutions ensuring intolerance doesn’t emerge) or if maintenance of tolerance would require an autocratic philosopher-king. The continual application of it to the online censorship debate makes little sense in light of its original rhetorical context. It is also constantly cited in policy…

See the "Tolerance and freedom of speech" section in the Wikipedia link for further discussion of how the idea applies to speech.

Re: Banned British far-right figures return to Twitter within hours of takeover

#19

Post by soared »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #13
soared wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one side of the argument. The other is that with social media, echo chambers, algos, etc we face a new risk of extremism that can cause cases like below. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2018_United_States_m... I haven’t really defined my opinion on this topic one way or the other. But in general I look at seatbelts in cars - they are required by law because if not, many people would save the $500 to b…

Imagine your comment, but with the link replaced with this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_baseball_shootin... What would your reaction to this be? Would you maybe be a bit concerned about how easy it might be to claim that some speech you see as important in some way leads to violence, and must therefore be censored?

My comment would remain the same - there is extremist media on both sides.

Re: Banned British far-right figures return to Twitter within hours of takeover

#20

Post by ButterWashed »

hker999 wrote: post #14

The far left extremists on Twitter are still there, spreading hate, and never got banned. Why so much attention to the far-right?

I'm not on Twitter and yet I'm probably aware of far-right commentary on the platform. I can't say I'm aware of any "far left extremists" as you call them. Who are the "far left extremists" that you mention? Isn't there more attention to far-right Twitter accounts due to the increase in violence taking place in the name of far-right politics?
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